Is Flag 3 on Escort too tough for BE?

firstly, take in mind that i say this not from having JUST lost there, but from having lost there dozens of times recently.

it seems to me that the 3rd flag is too difficult to take. here's an example: the BE team is working well. they're drilled, oiled and working as a team. they capped the first two flags withing two minutes. but now comes the third flag.

every time they spawn, they generally have to run up the ramp, down the other side, and THEN get into combat. the NF only have to run about 5 seconds to the flag. so if a BE guy kills an NF guy, the chances are that he's going to have to kill him at LEAST one more time before he approaches the flag. and as BE kill the NF, the NF keep spawning and get denser and denser as they get crushed together, until the point where BE are fighting right next to the flag but can't even get line of sight of it without incurring the wrath of a rifleman or two. with some turrets placed behind the flag, grenadiers can't get to them because if they get in any position where they might be able to start shooting them, the NF riflemen cut them to shreds. so what about a nuke tank? well, as you all know, it's bloody impossible to get a nuke tank down that alley without atleast one grenadier shooting down from above. the grenadiers on that ledge beside where the vehicles have to go can easily step back to reload, and appear for only half a second anywhere at their leisure to shoot death down on the people below.

now lets have a look at the other flags, which I think are really nicely balanced. I've seen BE stopped at all of them, but never hopelessly so as flag 3. at flag 1, 4 and 5, NF has a moderate (20 seconds) distance to walk, allowing BE a reasonable chance to survive long enough to get the flag. it seems fun for both sides, as there are loads of ways to get to the flag and places for BE to hide. flag 2 on the other hand takes another approach, giving BE a dozen ways in, and not making it impossible for vehicles to be used.

so, taking a non bias appoach to this: is flag 3 too difficult. if it is, then we will easily find a way to change it. but lets first just see.

 

add some sort of route to bypass the flag so you can attack them from behind...

 

The thing that makes this a difficult flag is when the enemy puts turrets in certain places its almost impossible to capture. I suggest re-designing this area to better suit the placing of turrets so their not over-powering.

 

First off, you have to remember BE gets tanks... So NF should get almost every advantage they can get since they do not get tanks.... Adding side routes for foot soldiers many work, but I dont think adding a back route will be a good idea...

 

I agree Sandbag, but when I play NF, it's pretty tough to keep that area. I think whatever team I'm on loses mostly.

A couple tanks with people who are bright enough to back up for repairs always seems to take me down.

 

You have to remember that the spawning issue can be alleviated slightly by the intelligent placement of an APC, provided your VF is still up.

 

The 3rd flag is positioned in a sewer, maybe BE could temporarily drain water into it?

 

Of course the 3rd flag is tough, however this map is not meant to be a walk in the park.

If you don't get the flag, then you don't deserve to win.
If you can't defend the flag, then you don't deserved to win.
If you lose a vehicle factory, then you don't deserve it.
If you lose a tank, then you don't deserve it.

There's a pattern here....

If you can not win, then you don't deserve to. How hard something is does not matter(with in reason) because the players need to get tough. I've lossed my fair share(and then some) on escort. Let the newer guys as well. Games lost will make better players. If the maps are dumbed down(like what happened to cdr-canyon) then the game is just not worth playing anymore.

This flag, however tough as it may be, is still fairly easy with vehicles(and nub NF). See, there are these things called nukes...and they hurt a lot. Use them! Don't pussy out cause you think 'it's not right!'. Anything within possible in the(intended) game mechanics is legal. Nukes are fine, artillery are fine.

People need to quit this bitching and play the damned game. If you don't use a weapon to give you an advantage because you somehow think of it as wrong, then can DIAF of mortar shells.

Play to win like you want to win. If you don't play like you want to win and end up up losing, don't question why you lost. Think about it!

 

Just one note. At least whenever I play the escort everyone gets only nuke tanks and use them as much as possible so the thing isn't because of "this isn't right" feeling.

But I got one word out of your text which I think no one has ever so far tried to do. Used massive artillery bombarding to that area so it would be much easier to capture. But I can't remember quite clearly is there a huge wall blocking the artillery at shooting that flag or not but at least no one has ever tried it when I have been on the escort.

 

A great team can take out nuke tanks. If you can't, then...

 

If a grenadier mines your tank, you didn't deserve to have one?

 

a great team? no. one great player. infact, one OK player. I could easily take down a nuke tank. when a tank is down that passage it has zero manouverablility. it also cannot aim its turret high enough to get people on the ledges. people on the ledges, near the back of the ledge, easily make themselves out of sight and thut pretty much invincible. then he pops to the edge, lets off a mortar, and disappears. even lots of infantry support cant stop that.

 

how about we chop flag threes bollocks off then it wont be so horny.

 

I've been killed by a tank many times from down there.

 

That sounds reasonable
Anyway has anyone ever thought about why the flag is in the sewers and not on the area above between the 2nd and last bridge?

Also for thewater flooding idea, maybe turn that into a water drainage idea? meaning the sewers are already flooded and the BE have to drain it?
I think this would be cool in conjunction with the flag movement, because:
- if BE managed to get the bridges up the flag would be easy to capture
- draining the sewers would make it even easier for BE to get the flag
- NF could make it harder for BE by building the wooden walls up on top
- NF could mine bridges and/or destroy the bridges to make it harder for BE

also this would make that area less static and more dynamic...

 

Not that tank anyways. Here's how you watch out for mines.

1: Watch ground for mines, or minimap for gren with mines
2: dodge
3: ?????
4 PROFIT!!!

A strategy I will use involves either running over 1 planted mine and having the gren kill himself, OR running the gren over. Both are simple and effective.

Good nuke tankers avoid conflicts like this by keeping enough distance to fire on the ledges. If a nuke tanker moves up to a point where he can not hit something...kill the idiot :D

 

sadly, once NF get more than about 8 people, the grenadiers can keep coming faster than you can nuke them. if you're admiting that the only way to take down the turret farms around that section is to use one tactic (nuke tanks), which can easily be stopped by a noobish BE team or a average good sized NF team, then you are definately saying that it needs to be made easier.

 

Yeah, but it seems a bit hard to make that flag even more versatile for BE. I mean, what are we going to do? Make even longer winding corridors to go behind the flag? Maybe we should just put the flag closer. Like under the infantry bridge like someone else suggested.

 

Taking out the turrets is a piece of cake.

1: Spawn as engineer
2: hide behind the corner adjacent from the 3rd flag.
3: place ammo crate.
4: ricochet nades off the walls
5: ??????
6: Profit!

Anything like turret farming or nukes has several well-thought-out strategies that WILL work if done correctly. Nukes just ensure that you do the most damage with minimal effort, which make them the better choice. However, a good NF can stop this from happening.

Now to address something else

When I say "good" NF team, I mean to say "If they are the better team" They can be idiot nubs and still better than short-bus riding, helmet wearing, constantly drooling, retarded nubs. There is a major difference. Or by luck, I'm defiantly sure a gren might be good enough to solo a nuke tank. chances, chances.

Also, the tank should have more than nukes on-board. like...HE shells? 2 of those are vicious. then add a Bio-MG for shits and giggles. nukes are just big-hitters. anything missed with a nuke can easily be taken care of with a well-placed shell up the ass.

Deep down, this game is not hard at all. It's just that people make it out to be, and try to bring the IQ requirements to play down as well.

 

did people just not read my post?
http://forums.empiresmod.com/showpost.php?p=67729&postcount=15