This mod took enormous effort to bring to open beta, and will undoubtedly boost the careers of its developers. However this mod is dying an early death, and in the end may not get the recognition it deserves. For a mod to live it has to gain new players at the same rate that it looses old players. However empires has trouble keeping new players who give the mod a try. The main problem is that the game is not fun if you don't have enough players, this then means people have to play a boring game while waiting for more players to join the server. Mods that are very successful are often fun regardless how full or empty the server is. Making sure this game IS fun, even with only 4-6 players, needs to become the central focus. To make this task as simple as possible, many features in the game may need to be temporarily disabled. 1st. players need to be more important. In an RTS, one tank may cost as much as 10 infantry. However in empire, the total number of units is limited by the number of players available. Even if artillery is nerfed, armored vehicles are far stronger then infantry or static defenses. 2nd. The different player classes are largely irrelevant, since one can change their class with ease and because only the engineer class has a true role. Furthermore a game with few players has far less diversity of player classes, which can increase their vulnerability to armor rushes. 3rd. The commander in small player games is a wasted player. He does not have a huge army to command, but rather a tiny base and only a few soldiers. 4th. The two teams look very different, but neither of them have a truly unique strategy. The developers however have to spend time trying to keep each team balanced, which is time that could be spent elsewhere. How I think you can save this mod from dying, and with the least work. make each team have identical equipment, but keep their unique models. This is a temporary fix to make the game simpler and hence easier to balance. create a new player class. It has the rocket launcher of the grenadier, and the repair pack of the engineer. Switch the command model with the jeep, making the commander far more mobile and agile. Allow the commander to repair a building while inside his jeep. temporarily disable all but a few skills, while you try to focus on low player number game play. possible suggestions -make anti-tank rockets more powerful -allow firearms to do more damage to armored targets -make missile turrets fire longer ranges -make tanks more expensive -limit the number of tanks depending on number of players on server -relate the cost of a tank to how many players are on the server -relate how fast resources grow depending on the number of players on the server Now here is what I'd do. The vehicular combat is great, I love how it feels like a tank-based game of mechwarrior 4. I like the heat, the reloading, the ammo limits, the armor plating, etc. I really like the northern faction look and how it plays homage to the world war I tanks. The vehicles are such a great part of this game, and I believe the players should have greater access to them.. Gear Kreig is a unique blend of mecha and world war II. http://www.dp9.com/Products/decalminisGK.htm http://www.agisn.de/html/dp9_stuff.html I think these low-tech mechs would fit into the game, make combat more interesting, and attract a lot of new players. Going back to the idea of players having greater access to vehicles, I believe they should spawn as a vehicle rather then as a lowly weak soldier. I also think that starting out as a tank or a mech would spoil the experience, so I’d suggest a power armor suit as the base stage. Here’s a link to a suit that would fit in world war II. http://www.agisn.de/html/ww2.html A player would customize the load out of the power suits and the mechs the same way they can customize a tank. Each suit would be able to have an anti-vehicle rpg, in addition to a chain gun. The suits could also have ‘motorized rollerblades’ built into the feet, allowing them to move faster then normal infantry. Each suit would also have a wielding device, allowing building to speed up and to repair units. The commander would have his own suit, but have far more health then a normal player. Buildings would build themselves, but can be built faster if worked on by a player. Tanks would not have enormous fire power, however they would have great armor that is also able to regenerate While all the players will essentially be vehicles, the game will still have infantry. I mean, what’s the point of being in an awesome tank if you can't run over helpless soldiers. While a server could have 10 or more soldier bots running around to give you something to kill, this can tax the server CPU and use up bandwidth. Hence a very different approach is suggested. All static defenses will have NPC soldiers manning them. For instance the turret would still be automatic, but there would be an NPC soldier actually controlling it. If you kill the soldier, the turret itself goes dead. The commander will lay down a structure, lets say, a pillbox. The commander then builds a barrack at the main base. A soldier leaves the barrack and walks to the pillbox, the instance he reaches the pillbox he disappears and a new NPC leaves the barrack back at the base. With each new soldier stuffed in the pillbox, the capability increases. Possible static defenses are as follows Pillbox Gun turret Artillery Snipers nest Trench line Now the trench line replaces the existing wall. In front of the trench are obstacles to stop the advance of tanks. Czech hedgehogs would work nicely. The soldiers inside the trench would not be true NPCs, but actually animated elements of the trench static defense. As a soldier reaches the trench line from their barrack, the 'health' of the trench increases. Let’s say a section has 5 soldiers doing repetitious animations when engaging an enemy. For a trench at 40% personnel health, 3 of the 5 soldiers would have a translucent skin that makes it look like they aren't actually there. Thus a trench line would look like it has many soldiers firing at the approaching enemy tanks and mechs, but wouldn’t take anywhere near the expected bandwidth. The amount of work put into this mod is massive, and it would be a shame if this mod fades away. While airplanes will add to the game, I highly doubt they will somehow ‘fix’ the poor game play with small teams. Adding the kreig mechs certainly is a major proposal, however no one has ever done a world war II mech game. I think it would make the mod stand out and greatly expand the mods fan base.
I stopped reading after mechs were proposed. They do not fit in the empires universe. If all goes well we should have buildable bots to make the small player games more interesting.
I like the idea of having an engineer with the mortar. The changes you propose take a lot of time to implement and balance well. In the end these short term solutions would be a lot of wasted time.
Yes, adding anything new takes time. I'm not worried about the mod dying. It can't die, only rest. Even if no one is playing, I'll still continue to work on it and release updates. I'm really stubborn like that. The fact that the game doesn't work with a few amount of players is obvious and has been recognized by the development team. Our plan is to introduce controllable bots. Before those are added, I want to optimize the current game as much as possible because like turrets, bots add a strain on the cpu.
That's a lot of suggestions for a single post, most of which have already been suggested. But you've clearly put a lot of thought into this. You are concerned for the small player base, let me put your mind at ease. After a few more versions (bringing in some general polish and identity), the hype machine can truly be started up again. And trust me: this mod has huuuuuuge potential. Many people are already aware of the mod, but probably have a false impression from the earlier versions. If the mod can show some progression with the new version numbering system (1.8), combined with some good publicity, people may think twice about picking it up again. All it takes is a few good reviews at the major gaming sites (possibly even a steam feature?) and people will be queueing up to play. Now the start of all this is the moddb awards, as far as I'm concerned. To win the main award, or even just the up-coming one, would be a huge help. Response to the trailer has been fantastic, and I've yet to hear a single negative comment. I'm sure people have noticed an increase in player numbers after its posting in the modcast section. The title of this topic implies that somehow this mod will be doomed without implementing these suggestions, but as Krenzo said, as long as the developers are committed, there is no way it can die. Look at the journey the mod has taken from BF42 to today. These guys aren't gonna give up.
Well, that's pretty much what I had to do when everyone wanted the guns to be more accurate and stronger.
The power suits are an interesting proposal. Then, you wouldn't have to build ML's or be a grenadier to not get your ass kicked by a enemy vehicle, in terms of infantry. Currently infantry without without a RPG is screwed against vehicles.
re modding the MOd personally I feel the game itself is spot on , tanks, guns, turrets, buildings an u still want more. I think minor settings could be changed if not many players are on a server mayne summat like 4 players on server Research is faster an building is faster to allow getting into tank battles faster, as more players join building time an research time increase.?? My main problem with gameplay is. 1. new players join an dont know what to do so spend all there time as scout looking round or driving comm jus for a larf, this causes mayhem an even if you got 2 teams of 10 on each side having 4 scouts unbalances gameplay. one noob player drivin a cv for 3 mins = end game. 2. unbalanced unfair teams, with the variety of gamepley available having good players on both teams makes for good long lasting battles with different tactics and strategies, what I think spoils 8 out of 10 games is how certain players always want to play the same team so if you got 5 good team members they will always win because they work together well, but this does not entice new players into game if while they are learning "an it takes a long time to learn all the possibilities of this game" they get wiped out game after game after game... what im getting at here i think is your all criticising the game/map/turrets/etc etc but maybe its the people who play ? are you trying to get a win or get a good strategic game , one where the victory feels sweet because it was hard faught for, not one that ended with lite tank rush that dont feel like a game of empires.......... bla bla so what to do about this , maybe the only person who can comm is someone who has squaded and has an upgrade thus noobs who dont know how to get upgrade will be like "it wont let me drive this big tank" wtf. haha. as for the game being modded maybe an admin could occasionally monitor some matches and ensure balanced teams ensuring better games are had also maybe a change of game conditions would alter peoples strategies and change the game style , say 1 game/map per day could be a game where the objective is not to kill comm but to not die and waste tickets, yes you;d have to think much more about using rev, not rushing an wasting lives etc... and my last rant is about how eager to ban people are, maybe a more leanient posture would keep players , say 1st offence 1 day ban 2nd offence 1 week ban 3rd offence ur banned for life. there are good players out there who can and do learn the lesson if given the chance. this is an awsome mod an although you cud change loadsa stuff then all youll get is someone saying i dont like the way you changed that!! you cant please all the people all the time! i know lets change the tanks/turrets/guns/models etc an call it "NOTquiteEmpires-2" ur turn - insults are reccomended but not mandatory -
This mod is dying? That's news to me. :D A quick look on the heap of suggestions and I see "Make tanks more expensive"... Seriously, tanks already cost an arm and a leg and rounds last up to three hours. Anyways my brain hurts after a long long game of Empires...
The reason I see that empires somtimes loses players is the lag, every game I play, I always see someone dropping out because they timeout. 1.06 and 1.1 will attract people, less lag will keep them.
If it is dying why do I see a new player every time that has to be quickly coached into shape? so people dont blam him to hell screaming "READ THE MANUAL OMFG!!!" After the ModDB I started seeing an influx of new people; as for the regulars most of them are just hybernating until the next patch; and some until aircraft... About balance: The balance is spot on, (Maybe the NF guns need a sligh tweaking though) what really effects it is the experience of players... It doesn't matter if you are driving a 400000 res tank, if you are new an experienced grenadier can easily take you out... And I think this is how it should be, people who stick around to master the game can easly mop the floor with anyone less experienced, and it would take a team effort of the "Nub" team to take down 1 veteran... Mechs; err... I dont know, They are cool, but I would rather see a bigger vioriety of standard veichles; instead of going gimmicky... Mowtar Engy: That would be quite interesting indeed; a "WTF" rape class against tanks... Classes and weapons: Those are fine as well, each one has its role, the engineer is the commonly used one since building and repairing is what needed the most; not to mention that they make the best tank commanders since they can repair and rearm the tank in between fights... Grenadiers are very good at what they are supposed to do; they can even take out infantry if you can aim the mortar... Rifleman: Does what its sopposed to do, the best infantry killer around; but not seen alot only on APC base assults and early game... (Or Crossroads, since res is limited) Scout: well the odd class out... Never really use it... its weapon is bleh... (I only use scout on district with speed and stamina upgrade... but even then I prefer the rifleman) **** Long story short, Empires is quite fine where it is now; nothing should be diverted from the original vision; as for players, they will come and are coming...
i wouldnt leave empires. too much fun regardless of players. gives all the functionality of battlefield with more realism, better gameplay, and people to talk to who dont just say ZOMG IM PART OF SQUAD 64 CLAN I PWN NUBS AT JET JUST LEAVE U NUBKAKERAWFLEHAX0r1! i dont think we need to worry about game dying. too many people like it.
Something to balance out the whole "OMFG ITS A TANK RUN!" thing with infantry, implement something along the lines of the power suit, but its AV weapon should be the current unbalanced one, that way they have a chance to fight back if they can utilize it enough. Then the Grenadier gets its upgrade as planned and stays the true anti vehicle class. Thats my main complaint, infantry are almost always screwed against vehicles. And what about aircraft? Then you wont even be able to nade them!
i do agree, especially a grenadier has real trouble with vehicles. I would recomend a "lock on" system, similar to halo 2, where you must look at a vehicle for 2 - 3 seconds, and then you get a "lock", after which, your missile guides itself to the enemy. that, or faster rockets. I mean, have you ever tried to take down an LT or two as gren, on an open map like duststorm? damn!
Mabey anti matter shields... I know they dont exist, I'm just trying to make up something. The idea is that its only availabe to grenadier, and it reduces all damage inflicted to grenadier when on foot, allowing him/her/it to survive long enough to destroy a vehicle, but not too long where they can out last a tank with full armour.
run up behind the tank and lay mines behind it and prey he backsup and doesnt have mine diffusal, this is usally a good way to take care of arty
Also prey he dosnt back up too soon, other wise he'll set them off with you on them and then you die.
Ofcourse your going to loose to a tank on open ground... on dustorm try to get on that hill and you will be safe... or have an engy lay down a wall... But faster rockets are a must... and they do too little damage to the later armors, it is almost a joke for a gren trying to take down a late game tank by himself
