Although my word is nothing definate, this thread may possibly, slightly, maybe be a determining factor on whether or not field guns are added. Anyway, what I'm talking about are things like the field gun modelled by the brilliantly talented DonMegel: Basically what I'd like to see are the possible pros and cons and whatever suggestions you have on how they're implemented. Pros - Field guns are cool =D (^Dee^) x2 votes - Great way to have a powerful weapon without dominating the game (Knighttemplar) Cons - We already have normal artillery (pointed out by cpugeek) - Could be a pain to use (Knighttemplar) - You wanna drag a gun over a 16x map? (knighttemplar) How I'd like them to be implemented - Since I already know these guns will be towed in tothe fields, all I would like to see of them would be to make them more like long range or HE anti tank guns instead of artillery pieces. (^Dee^) - Cheap (knighttemplar) - Available early (Immediately?) (knighttemplar) - x axis moves half as fast as y axis (knighttemplar) - Buildable overhead camouflage and walls that can be placed nearby (knighttemplar) - Doesn't count towards vehicle limit (knighttemplar) - All Vehicles can drag and horsepower a factor (Shift or ctrl to hook on?) (knighttemplar) - Maybe raise the price of the mobile artillary so that its even more expensive or decrease its damage. (cpugeek) - I'm thinking that the field artillary will be used more in defensive positions. It would be used to defend bases and important points. Also, maybe it should be more of an AT gun than a true artillary. Maybe we could decrease mobile artillary damage to tanks by a lot and let this fill the gap. (cpugeek) - Is operated by an infantry man (the player, as a soldier) that actually presses [use] on the ammo storage place, [use] on the main gun (to load it), then uses the spotter to aim, then fires while in the spotter mode, then presses [use] again on the main barrel to eject the spent shell casing. thus, two people, one working as a spotter to constantly track targets and the other as a loader, would be at least twice as effective. (Private Sandbag) - can be 'hijacked', by enemy players? (Private sandbag) - The artillery could be placed on top of a rotating cilinder, that allows for base protection, but make it impossible to rotate 180 degrees, and require research for more degrees (standard: 30 degrees, research 2: 45 degrees, research 3: 60 degrees). (solokiller) - What this should be is an accurate way of taking down structures within line-of-sight. So once it has been fired, it returns to its exact previous position to be fired at the same point again, effectively making it recoilless. (Broccoli)
We have normal artillery, but it's been suggested that it be made deployable. So, this could be the deployable artillery. This way everybody can be happy. I like the model, it just doesn't look very futuristic.
Pros - It's really cool - Great way to have a powerful weapon without dominating the game - See implimentation Cons - Not truly necessary - Could be a pain to use - You wanna drag a gun over a 16x map? How I would like it to be Implemented - Cheap - Available early (Immediately?) - x axis moves half as fast as y axis - Buildable overhead camouflage and walls that can be placed nearby - Doesn't count towards vehicle limit - All Vehicles can drag and horsepower a factor (Shift or ctrl to hook on?)
There is a place for both. Towed artillery would be cheaper and lower on the research tree but have no armor and cant really move without a truck. The Feild peices could have bonuses agasint tanks when loaded with AP rounds and have a longer range than mobil artillery when loaded with HE rounds. Mobil arty still needs to be deployable. EDIT: Beat me to it, I agree with most of knight's points.
If we implement these, theres gonna have to be a drastic difference between this and the mobile artillary or else no one is going to use it. Maybe raise the price of the mobile artillary so that its even more expensive or decrease its damage. I'm thinking that the field artillary will be used more in defensive positions. It would be used to defend bases and important points. Also, maybe it should be more of an AT gun than a true artillary. Maybe we could decrease mobile artillary damage to tanks by a lot and let this fill the gap.
Pros: If attached to jeeps you can quickly move artilery pieces into place where you need them; if AT; AA are also of the same nature; then they will be undespensable; as 1 jeep can cover a huge area constantly re deploying 1 piece, making quick base raids possible Cons: When stacked a large number could be easily abused as the cost of field gun + jeep is lower then of 1 artilery; making a sort of a field gun spam where the entire team is in an field gun spamming anything to death
I hate it . Please don't kill me, it's just that a gun like this with no armor is so gonna get OMGWTF-NADEPWNED. I want a mounted chain gun :D
So? There is also a heavy tank, while there already is a medium and light one. This would be a lighter option. Maybe slow to manouver, but it wouldn't be practical in large maps anyway. It'd be like playing mvalley with only infantry. It would be good for smaller maps. Field guns would provide a lighter option for artillery, and both teams should have gotten it before anybody gets artillery tanks. This way, artillery tanks won't suddenly dominate the match when they get researched by one team. I don't think grenades have a throwing range of anything even NEAR what a field gun would have. If you're worried about being naded, then get the highground in the map or just build a turret or two for protection.
The artillery could be placed on top of a rotating cilinder, that allows for base protection, but make it impossible to rotate 180 degrees, and require research for more degrees (standard: 30 degrees, research 2: 45 degrees, research 3: 60 degrees).
i like it as it stands. however, it definately needs some "flaps" to come up from the rear supports, to offer a little cover to crouched players from small arms fire. I like the idea that this can be flanked, it would definately have a role behind the front lines. -Is operated by an infantry man (the player, as a soldier) that actually presses [use] on the ammo storage place, [use] on the main gun (to load it), then uses the spotter to aim, then fires while in the spotter mode, then presses [use] again on the main barrel to eject the spent shell casing. thus, two people, one working as a spotter to constantly track targets and the other as a loader, would be at least twice as effective. -can be 'hijacked', by enemy players?
How about just 90 left and 90 right at first, then you could get an upgrade that allows you to spin as much as you want? It sounds pretty silly and unnecessarily complicated to gradually increase the degree. Btw. Dee, could you also add the few comments under the list of Pros and Cons that counter them? Namely Cons this time.
if people list pros and cons, I'll put them in. Some things I haven't included because those certain things I already know how it's going to work in that degree. If I've missed anything then please point them out so I can add them
If the field gun is cheap and doesn't need much researching (if at all?) then a pro would definetely be that there'd be a cheap way of countering tanks and artillery. It would make the battle's outcome less dependant on the matter of researching tanks before the other team, as tanks wouldn't be able to dominate the battlefield so quickly. It would also contribute to other research and base building, because you wouldn't have to make giant ML turret farms.
I think I fail to see how this can be a tank-stopper. I mean, tanks are mobile. And that's just static, not to mention open-air. What is to stop the tank driver circling the emplacement and taking out its crew easily? What this should be is an accurate way of taking down structures within line-of-sight. So once it has been fired, it returns to its exact previous position to be fired at the same point again, effectively making it recoilless. I don't know, I guess I just don't understand this idea fully. What can it do that tanks and arty can't already do much better?
In Empires42 the AT turrets were essentially just a tank/artillery cannon mounted on a pillar, player controlled. The reason the turrets in Empires are automated is because, in the first incarnations, no one ever stayed back in a turret to defend a base. Adding this with the idea that it would be a defensive weapon seems to be a call back to manual anti-tank turrets, which proved to be ineffectual. With that said, field artillery might be an interesting idea. It would add high ground near enemy bases to the list of strategic importance, as it would require you to setup a guard perimeter around the batteries. It would also add to the importance of setting up a base on a hill overlooking a wide valley in which a battle could take place. This role of relatively close range artillery is, in my opinion, the role field guns should fill primarily. Whereas the traditional artillery would sit half a map a way and shell the hell out of a base, field guns would sit just behind the front lines, shelling the hell out of the enemy forces. Roughly similar damage, but at different ranges to fulfill different roles. The gun would provide a slight edge in a battle, and add another element of strategy to tank battles (avoid those falling balls of death ) As far as dragging it over a 16x map, that's why you build forward outposts. :p A few questions need to be answered though. How does one acquire a field gun? Do you add it to a vehicle in customization? Can you purchase them separately? Where do they appear? The biggest question is how do you stop them from being abused. What stops a griefer from driving his gun towing jeep just outside of the vehicle factory and leaving it there? I've yet to see towed artillery implemented well in a game.
It reminded me of AT guns during WWII, so thats why i suggested it. Basically, you kill the tank before it is able to circle strafe you. And when i said defend bases, i should have said defend positions. I could see someone moving one of these guns to a chokepoint and just sitting there and waiting for a tank to come rolling along. Its true, though, since we have ML turrets, there really is very little need to players to defend bases until artillary starts bombarding them.
I would be that guy, its tank sniping, setting up ambushes for armor and vehicals. Id be all over that.
I see them as more of a support unit deployed just behind the front lines, a nice unit to have along to give you just that little bit of edge in a fight.
