I like them overall. Not too many completely bullshit OP weapons. A few comments. NFAR remains too accurate if u start to spray. The accuracy is completely ridiculous. BEHR perfecto although you can rapidly single tap it without it losing accuracy maybe change this cause shits too stronk otherwise. BECR weird gun, dont like using it plus animation is bugged so that makes things worse pistol 1 is fine machine pistol -> I dont like how there is no first bullet accuracy. This should be available on every single fire gun. smg2 is ok smg1 is ok but I would like smg1 to be available for th scout. Scout has no long-medium range engaging first weapon which is dumb as crap shotgun fine autoshotgun no use at all except niche. Overall its nice. I feel like guns do more damage in general and u die faster giving newbs a chance but also not a chance. Good job empty now fix the rest of this shit and take over spartacus his vehicle job too.
I thought that was the point? Make scout super effective at close range and really only close range. Though I don't really agree with that, what happened to the pistol you have?
I dont see how the scout is really effective at close range with only smg2 and shotgun. Both are really good close range but it isnt onpar with having a behr and nfar. Especially with the damage buffs. Pistol 1 is accurate but it isnt the same as having smg1. I'd take smg1 long-medium range of pistol cause u can burst follow your target. Thats way easyer than single shot following your target.
Scouts have a 0.35 damage resist and riflemen have a 0 damage resist so a scout is taking only around 25 damage a shot from rifleman weapons, whereas the rifleman will be taking 33+ from SMG2 and a lot more from shotguns. Rifleman can still win at close range if he fires first and shoots well, but the same is also true of scout at long range with pistols or tap firing smg2.
Tap firing smg2 or pistol 1 is in no way as effective as the rate of accurate fire behr or nfar can provide to hit people. And again, I still feel like rifleman can beat scouts 1v1 close too because of the pinpoint accuracy when spraying( not pinpoint but really accurate especially nfar) and higher rof than smg2.
Hmmmmmmm, I remember the last test of scripts and scouts were pretty good at close range. I haven't had a chance on the new ones officially released yet though. I just feel like this is a case of you playing against not so great players and coming to the conclusion that rifles rule, which I feel like is an argument that can come from a lot of the more skilled vets for a lot of empire balance.
Ive used both classes. I'd agree I might be biased towards rifleman if I only played rifleman against worse players but I didnt. SMG2 drops in accuracy too fast to be used in rapid succesion in close combat and be as efficient as riflemans behr.
I never said it was as effective nor was it supposed to be as effective. If you're playing scout I'd recommend moving erratically at close range, and attempting as much as possible to fire first, particularly against riflemen. Riflemen are still very powerful, but up close they'll die faster than you, so you have an advantage. Pinpoint accuracy isn't always an advantage in close quarters, the spread of several close range weapons will let you get shots by luck that you would have missed, whereas with the NFAR if you dont have your reticule perfectly placed (very difficult to do for every shot) you'll miss every time. Whatever you do, don't stand still in close quarters, crouching is no longer effective (though I plan to bring it back for riflemen) I may lower rifle accuracy while standing a touch, to make them a bit easier to hit at long ranges, since riflemen can sprint around and still land shots which is in my opinion not entirely optimal. Here, have a helpful infographic to show you the intended effective ranges of each class. SIDENOTE: weapon selection has a big impact on this, a scout with shot pistol and shotgun will obviously be much closer range than a scout with pistol1 and smg2 So essentially: Best Class: wins nearly every time, especially if they shoot first. Can often win the fight at a disadvantage (shooting second, prior injury) Good: Beats lower tier classes most of the time, lands most shots easily and has weapons that will work at this range. Skill decides most fights this class participates in Usable: You can deal damage at this range. You won't win a straight up fight and you should usually not engage, but you can support a squad with additional firepower, and finish off weak or fleeing units. Bad: You cannot deal significant damage, this means either falloff prevents you dealing damage, or the odds of one of your shots landing are nearly 0. You should expect to lose every time when you fight at this range.
Gren is not better than any class, and is in fact a bit weak atm because he can't hit the very mobile new infantry, but he's usable at nearly all ranges. Good is where you want to be, blue is the reward scout and rifle get for sacrificing nearly all other utility.
Doesnt that make the entire ordeal skill based. Basicly you just said scout can get lucky close range shots because its innacurate but rifleman will hit anything in the reticule but if you cant aim that doesnt do much -> rifleman is super stron because if you can keep your reticule aimed well u win cause scout has a luck factor. Not sure how I feel about this.
Btw its important to differentiate the difference between good and best class. Rifleman can be the best class at extreme range but that doesnt make him good at extreme range.
Oh, noobs still run around with the scoped rifle being utterly useless. Weapon balance is cool though, with some minor mancamanets like crazy good smgs and accurate p1.
We don't live with machines playing each class, but essentially the maths work out this way: ARs do 25~ a shot to scouts SMG2 does 33+ a shot to rifles Rifles are killing scouts in 4 shots (6 with health upg, srsly get health upgrade as scout), scouts are killing rifles in 3 (4 with health upg). Shotguns can easily kill rifles in one or two shots. On top of this, rifles, while accurate suffer from ultrahigh accuracy which is a downside in close range combat. Anyone can tell you it's easier to land a shotgun blast than it is to land a railgun at close range, same principle. Scout doesn't need to land as many hits nor does hehave to be as perfectly accurate, rifleman on the other hand has to bring his A-Game not not miss a single shot or he's guaranteed to lose. Scout is powerful but rifleman still has a fighting chance if he's good. I'm thinking scout may go up to 0.4 resist or even 0.45 since I'm still finding that he wins in close combat in 1v1, but he lacks longevity and two riflemen will easily take him down. I don't mind it too much, but rifleman is still more versatile since he works at all ranges and scout is only good up close, so I really want scouts power to be pronounced, while still allowing riflemen to play.
He is the best class at extreme range, nobody else can deal damage as well as he can, he's certainly not killing people in under a second, but nobody can match his damage and reliability.
Not saying hes bad Im just saying its quite weird calling it the best class without noting the best doesnt mean hes awesome at it. Like me and you are both shitty at talking italian but one of us is the least shittiest and thus the best. Thats what im trying to say
I made mine. If you are really good at Gren, Gren indeed is the best at close range. But I can only count 8 such Grenadiers. At close range, Gren isn't better than rifleman and shotgun scout, sometimes even SMG2 Engi can outplay. Gren falls off because of mortar. Now Rifleman got sniper, the only threats to Rifleman are just shotgun and mortar and SMG2 at close range. Engineer, SMG1 + pistol actually isn't that bad at long range, definitely better than Scout and Grenadier. Scout, basically just a combination of Shotgun and Engineer.
Joke's on you faggots; max weapon range is hard-coded 8000 units even thought max visible range is 10000 units. You're using the "1 rax = 1000 units" rule, right? In such a case, I'd put close-range at 1.5 barracks at the absolute most and more around 1 barracks; NF scout has a bit better range than BE scout because SMG3, but all the other weapons have spread that gets raped by NFAR/BEHR. Strictly speaking, at any given range, there should always be one bar that is blue. For a given distance, one of them *has* to be the best. I also want to note that these vastly make the rifleman seem more powerful than he actually is. Although it shows him being the best for over half the distances of combat, I'd peg 90% of Empires combat happens somewhere between 250 and 3000 units, maybe 95% going up to 4000 units or so. This is due to walls, ammo crates and revives allowing two teams to constantly keep pushing towards each other; in many other games with static spawns, you can only push so far before your opponent has the advantage of having to travel much less after dying. Even if you remove recoil, spread, falloff and up damage, walls and revives cause Empires combat to not be bound by the standard ideas of combat distance, which you normally increase by lowering falloff, spread, recoil, RoF and ammo counts while increasing damage (to compensate for the loss in RoF).
take candles "fixed" melee upgrade with speed upgrade, wow now every class is effective at close range.
