emp_chain beta version ...

Discussion in 'Mapping' started by Silk, Jul 9, 2011.

  1. bitchslap

    bitchslap Member

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    yeah 4-5 variations would be awesome for mappers.

    current.
    1. less high but same width
    2. slightly taller but less dense
    3. current one with wider branches (longer)
    4. baby trees (scale down x&y AND then scale either x or y depending on what looks better)

    help?

    EDIT: and yes u can scale them in hammer, but only if they arent prop_static, which i'm presuming they currently are...
    EDIT2: n/m i see they are prop_dynamic...nice work, posting screenies soon with some more feedback.
    EDIT3: also just realized this is silk's chain thread, so going to post in art or mapping with tree feedback rappmo

    Also, Silk i've not had a chance to play this yet, but it looks gorgeous, your maps have come a long way, and this definitely should become the default official map for Empires. (hope gameplay is fun and challenging)
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  2. Varbles

    Varbles Simply Maptastic. Staff Member

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    Actually with a bit of tweaking that is possible, but you'd have to make your own details.vbsp. The models would be synced on all the clients because they are actual props, they're just randomly placed by the compiler, so for the same compiled version of the map they show in the same spot. Solidarity could be done too, by spawning them as prop_static instead of prop_detail or whatever internal entity they're spawned as. The only problem might be lighting, but if it's a heavily forested area, you could just manually shade all of the ground.


    For trees like this though it'd probably be easier to do what I do and just make a prefab out of them. Offset the base a few units below the prefab origin, make sure the random yaw box is checked, then go to town all over your map.
     
  3. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    There's two things i just have to mention.

    From up close it's very obvious that the texture resolution is low. This holds true mainly for the trunk. I actually think it might still look low res even with doubling it.
    Also the way the branches end, where the leaf textures take it over, is too obvious. The end of the branch just draws your attention making it clear it just stops.
    For example the EP2 pines also have the branches just stop suddenly, but if you don't know they do, you wouldn't notice it. With your pine however, it seems to want people to know they suddenly stop. :)

    EP2 branches:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/234836/mapping/emp_chain/branches2.jpg

    Your branches:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/234836/mapping/emp_chain/branches.jpg

    Apart from that all looks well. Compared to the EP2 trees they are a lot darker, but i can't say how that translates to a radiation compiled map. Apart from the dark tone, it looked totally in place in Chain, so the shape seems fine (it seems to match the current smaller sized pine almost exactly). It's only up close that the low res texture and the attention seeking branches form a problem.

    I haven't tested collisions or lods yet. My free day of the week is the day after tomorrow, so i'll be able to test it out better then.

    Edit:
    to fix the branch problem:
    - Have the top of the branch textured the same way as the rest, so no circular woodcut texture
    - It's probably better not to have part of the branch in the leaf texture, as the difference between the 2d and 3d branch is what makes it look odd, especially in the places they don't align.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2012
  4. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    - Some hole in the center building ceiling - FIXED
    - Some displacements on the east not touching the ground - FIXED
    - Reducing the Yellow value of the light slightly - DONE
    - Move northern team first ref to 2nd resource spot - DONE
    - Adding invisible clips and comm/engy build restrict entities on top of the cliffs to reduce exploiting - DONE
    - Add two ramps for infantry to get up the middle hill - DONE
    - Swap trees with none copyrighted ones - 70% DONE
    - Test new ramps - DONE
    - Test starting refineries - DONE
    - Test new trees - TODO
    - Test 9mining vehicles on top of the hills - TODO

    Try as i might i can't get vehicles on the hills with or without the invisible walls.
    Whoever it was that liked to grief on this map, i might need your help to test this.
     
  5. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    you put a be barax down then drive the com onto it... then 18+ mine it up there. You can't do it by yourself.
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    put high enough vehicle clips to prevent this (right up to the skybox ceiling) and/or permaban everyone who does it. its absurd if you consider that if you manage to get an APC onto the NF rax how high youd have to make cliffs then ...

    or remove the push effect on friendly mines, but then you cant use it to 9mine comms out of water or stuff it got stuck on ...
     
  7. harryhoot1

    harryhoot1 Member

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    put a trigger_multiple in the sky that activates a point_clientcommand entity on the !activator

    and make them say that forbidden command that gets you banned
    (soundscape flush something)
     
  8. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    this is genious, someone give the man a medal!
     
  9. w00kie

    w00kie Mustachioed Mexican

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    Is commview not affected by that?
    i'd like to see comms getting banned zooming out too much. ^^
     
  10. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    The people who 9mine the com up there... ya... they are admins on the server... I don't think the auto ban is going to affect them.(unless your talking some kind of vac ban)
     
  11. harryhoot1

    harryhoot1 Member

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    Triggers don't affect comm view at all.


    They will have a tough time explaining to vicki why they got banned on emp_chain by typing the 'ban command' considering everything that's happened.
     
  12. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    The amount of brushes required to prevent griefing that tiny bit more is too much for the engine. With it the map crashes.

    To match the cliff edges i needed around 150 brushes in total divided over 4 entities (north, middle, southeast, southwest); multiplied by 4 (eng_restrict, comm_restrict, vehicleclip, trigger_hurt) that's 600 brushes divided over 16 entities more.

    With less brushes you'll have areas of the cliffs uncovered and/or brushes sticking over the edge preventing building placement in the map itself.
    With less entities (like trigger_hurt) it's still griefable as shown in the past in previous maps of mine.

    So however i'm gonna solve this, it'll be a while, as i have no need to be spending so much time over something i'm not behind anyway.

    And all of this because spoiled and childish people on the internet think they can get away with griefing simply by going "If i can do it, it's part of the map". There's something else you can do, murder your neighbour; see if "If i can do it, it's part of life" will keep you out of jail.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2012
  13. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    this ...
     
  14. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    This ...
     
  15. RappemongO

    RappemongO Member

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    If it takes 18+ mines I don't really see the problem. It's not as if teamwork is suddenly running rampant...
     
  16. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    it is... when the admin of the server is on BE's side and says... lets get on top of middle and WIN. You don't think they could get 3 people to switch to gren? That tells everyone on BE side... its ok to grief the com on top because the admin won't ban you. In other words... griefing is cool because, the currently on server admin, allows it.

    Everyone likes to win. Some people are willing to do anything to win even if they have to cheat/grief.
     
  17. LordDz_2

    LordDz_2 Strange things happens here

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    Now I don't know where that spot is, but all mountains are on the same level right? And you shouldn't be able to drive up on any of them (except the ones in the middle).

    Can't you just put a huge vehicle clip over the whole map high up in the sky?
     
  18. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    I did it with only 1 huge comm_restrict, 1 huge vehicleclip and 1 huge playerclip as well, and it would still crash. I guess the size of the areas affected matters as well.

    And yes, if i turn off those 3 entities, it compiles

    I'm gonna keep trying though, but slowly.

    Fact is, Chain was right on the edge of several engine limitations. I had to carefully set lightmapscale for every single surface to get lightmap detail low enough to compile for example. The last months of working on chain was all about removing detail somewhere to be able to add detail somewhere else.
     
  19. Silk

    Silk Mapper

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    VICTORY!!

    1) Anti-griefing:
    The map now has a comm restrict over the entire map that should be high enough to allow building placement of any building on the ground level, but none on top of the cliffs (will test this more extensively). It also has a vehicle clip over the entire map that should prevent any vehicle from getting on top of the cliffs.

    It has no trigger_hurt killing people, it has no player clips in the middle (it always had them in the northern base with it's lower walls), and it has no engineer_restrict in the middle either. However if 9 mining vehicles up the middle was the main problem with griefing, at least this should be over.

    2) Visually:
    For the first time ever i managed to mostly get rid of ... whatever it was that looked odd about the light and shadows. I had to alter the 2D skybox for it though and it still isn't perfect, but i'm finally satisfied with it.

    3) New trees:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2012
  20. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    Silk is my new map god that I pray too.
     

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