[EMOSL] Pug-Draft Sunday 20th July 21:00 BST/4pm EDT/1pm PDT

Have fun while raping my enemy, that's Empires for me.

 

Well that is sad, but its how empires rolls, you're not really going to have a good time when the other team is stacked like a motherfucker.

 

It feels really schoolboy to me. And bearing in mind we should have moderate to high level players...it just feels like if this is how the game is now, something's pretty broke.

Used to be that a player could make a difference on a team, but that a team that played well together could crush pretty much every obstacle. To me, that's Empires. Teamwork trumps skill every time, and to see people just abandon it when so-called good players are picked by one team seems kinda whiny and sad. If you play against a team that's good, you'll get better, and this defeatist attitude is really really sad.

This isn't a game that has an insanely high skill ceiling. If you can run and shoot and think, you have more than a chance. Added to that we have vehicles and buildings that mean you have a bunch of different ways to defeat an obstacle. I have never, NEVER met an Empires player who could outclass me all the time. I have met players like that in other games, lots of them, but Empires is not that sort of game. No one's that good, because on a battlefield you just have that many options.

Yeah, it might feel that way sometimes if you have to take an objective or defend a section. You might get shot or punched or mortared a half dozen times, but that's really the fault of tactics and how people get so locked into doing something that they won't adapt. It's a team against a team, and to win your team needs to be dynamic and fluid, because that's what's always effective. Being too quick for the enemy to adjust, and working together with maximal effectiveness.

 

paradox is just a bad player

add customs plz

 

Problem here is that great teamwork is nice and all, but wont make a world of difference against vets. You really need perfect teamwork on average guys to just stall them and vets only need a couple of engies that know the basics for ammo and rev. God help you if the engy is a vet as well. Problem is also that with teamwork is not really the answer for every problem. Your average grens will struggle to kill anything meaningfull as far as vehicles go and panic when faced with several vehs at once, whereas vets can kite them with speed and make the tankers their bitches, because gren is, except for the pistols spread, a purely skill based class. There is no dievation on the mortar.

Im not saying its impossible to win, but its very unlikely unless noone will give any shit whatsoever on the vet team.

 

There is litterally no fucking way in hell an average players team wins against a vet team cause u wanna know a secret even with the best leadership in the world, the vet team will have a commander that is a vet too and not retarded. The vet team doesnt need a lot of explaining cause they themselves understand teamwork and execute it without having to fucking get it explained to them. If im in a squad with reznov bloodraven spike nihia I dont need to tell them how to play theyll execute everything themselves and teamwork id going to be plentyfull.

 

I don't know. Are you guys expecting people who don't really know how to play to turn up to the pug? And if so...it's a pug. Like, I can understand in a scrim, but in a pug if things aren't going well it's not always due to a lack of vets. You can't tell me you haven't lost games you shouldn't even with lots of vets on the team, and vice versa - won games you thought you couldn't. I *know* you've been in lots of games where you've been on newbie teams that have won against vets, Ziooom.

I mean heck, we have FN fielding his clan the other time against what should have been a pretty ramshackle operation in comparison, but it wasn't.

And Lazybum, you mentioned denial...it's true, but what I more often see happening is lots of engineers being pwned by a rifleman. When none of them switch class, they die. But when they do, heck if half of them did, they would steam roll. Rifleman are probably the most natural class to play (apart from the sights, jesus) because they the best fps class. Against grens...well that's more difficult, I'll grant, and perhaps that's where the scout used to be most useful (which I didn't think about until now), but it's still not terrible compared to a level 3 MG and some walls...

I'm not saying that a highly skilled team doesn't usually win. What I'm saying is if you're at a decent level and the enemy team has 3-4 more vets than you, then yes, you can still totally beat that other team. Because that's what we're talking about here, 3-4 vets.

I mean, who do we really have in Empires that is by far better than everyone else?

I've done it maybe a hundred or so times. Against good commanders and good players.

And I'm not even going to pretend I'm a great player, but all regular players want is some direction and things at the right time. And fuck yes they'll man up if they're the underdog. That's what humans do. Bitter defiance is something ingrained in our systems.

"From hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee!" That's freaking the reason people play competitive games, so they can stomp all over those who think they're better than them, and win out against crushing odds.

 

Well, I phrased it that way mostly to talk to Paradox, since that's especially what vibe with people who play more for competition. Or for whom fun is competition.

I was talking about the pug which Lawliet didn't host, and sort of went to pot.

I'm not going to push the point, because you guys all play a whole lot more than me. What I would say is if it were true that having a bunch of vets on a team guaranteed success, the game probably would have been toast a long time ago. Because we had that, a lot. We still do sometimes. But what I'd rather notice is a team that would otherwise just fall apart, tends to perform nearly as good as, and sometimes better than, a stacked team.

For a pug, though, I dunno. The old pugs were pick up games where we basically clashed and learnt/tested new stuff. These ones seem more like unaffiliated team scrims. They're more like the league in a way, except that the drama is pretty minimal since we usually have a decent commander and just listen to them.

PUGs just used to be a invite to a certain time where people would be playing, with little or no true organisation. Though organisation was fairly unnecessary since everyone was pretty much at decent or higher skill level...and like mines could take down bases, engies could take down bases, rail-heavies and nuke heavies were the only real options, and you were constantly running out of res due to some chump who bought an expensive tank and then got owned.

It's a weird combination of slowing down/stalemating gameplay and making it real easy to break the match into pieces. Not gonna lie, kinda enjoyed the latter.

 

@ikalx im talking about scenariis where thr vets are trying to win. Ill give u this that in pubs u can take averages and lead them to victory over vets cause half of them, me too, fuck around on most maps. But on pugs a higher to all will try hard to win.

 

Which is why i said its not impossible, but highly unlikely. You can try, and might even be sucesfull, but chances are you are going to get stomped and noone will have any fun, maybe except those jeep fags who do nothing else. Balanced game is just a more fun game. The problem is also that vets can and will just spam last ditch apc rushes or pull shit like main base mass rev, and holy shit can this be upsetting if you've been winning against a better team. Bonus points if your com is spartacus.

I dont see what are you trying to say. Vets lost to a stacked team.

 

Why dont we just use this group instead of making newer shittier ones every 2 weeks?

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/empvetpug/

 

Probably the same reason why empires has like 20 diffrent pug/scrim/friends groups.

Not even kidding here.

 

Yeah, it is mildly infuriating that we've got a few dozen Empires-related groups, but I suppose it's unavoidable.

 

Eh, I'm talking about where they're trying to win too. I'm *not* talking about scrims though.

Still, I feel like if it's really the way where there are a bunch of vets who are undefeatable, we should just have them all on one team and have the other team consist of the lower skilled dudes. Until, as you guys so often say, you "git gud".

If you really think it's unwinnable, that is.

Heck, there's so much boasting in this community we should just have all the elites on one team facing off against everyone else who wants to play - regardless of numbers and see how it goes. If each player can handle an enemy squad by themselves, I'll give them that.

Edit: I guess what I'm trying to say is that Empires is heavily reliant on people having a brain, rather than being uber skilled at stuff. If you have a brain and are an okay shot, you're about as good as you need to be. If you get a bunch of people working like that together, you'd get a pretty good game - regardless of the outcome.

 

Forgetting my bs posts for a minute, is the server set up and ready? I see 40 slots on it, is that what we want or would 48 (or more) be preferred?

 

unless you bother vicki then yes. also default maps