E-repair

Discussion in 'Under Consideration' started by BigTeef, Feb 15, 2015.

  1. BigTeef

    BigTeef Bootleg Headshot master

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    This idea transpired to the calculator suggestion.

    1:22 AM - Candles: What do you think about e-repair?
    1:22 AM - Big Boss BigTeef: Um
    1:22 AM - Big Boss BigTeef: A upgrade
    1:22 AM - Big Boss BigTeef: for e?
    1:23 AM - Candles: Yeah
    1:23 AM - Candles: Not like a skill
    1:23 AM - Big Boss BigTeef: Oh
    1:23 AM - Candles: Just making it so you can e-repair.
    1:23 AM - Big Boss BigTeef: so you can repair
    1:23 AM - Big Boss BigTeef: and build
    1:23 AM - Candles: Yeah
    1:23 AM - Big Boss BigTeef: okay
    1:23 AM - Big Boss BigTeef: sure
    1:23 AM - Candles: Okay
    1:23 AM - Candles: That's 2 for yes.
    1:32 AM - Candles: Oh yeah, also, you wouldn't be able to e-repair a tank.
    1:32 AM - Candles: For obvious reasons.


    Yay or nay for E-repair?
     
  2. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    itll be even harder to kill buildings. just saying

    but its not like reducing the amount of choice you have on a 1500 res heavy tank
     
  3. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Yes. I already had a thread on this, but yes still the same. It's really annoying that you can only e-build, and stops people from doing more.

    And if it's kept at the same kind of speed as e-build (or only between 20-30% increase) it should be fine.
     
  4. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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  5. Trainzack

    Trainzack Member

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    What about e-building map placed constructs, like the bridges on escort, slaughtered, and isle?
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    why differentiate between classes? just let everyone directly interfere with the RTS part of the game. it ultimatively should result in a way freer class choice for players, as currently the game fully relies on a certain amount of engineers depending on player counts and game phase.

    the only class specific skill which could pose a problem is hide but you could just make it exclusive to build in general (repair could stay as option, but it might be counterintuitive and confusing)
     
  7. Candles

    Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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    I can't tell if you people are saying "Yes", "No", "Yes but it's not going far enough", "No because it doesn't go far enough", "Yes but you're only hiding the issue" or "No because you're not dealing with the main issue".
     
  8. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    deffinately yes, even if its not taken to the extreme i would wish for. i wasnt aware its a decision this close.

    edit:
    make a poll if you want yes-no answers, ask spartacus to do it he loves polls
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2015
  9. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    You missed "meh, it doesn't really address the issue, but it doesn't make it significantly worse."
     
  10. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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    Yes, this is worth a try.
     
  11. BigTeef

    BigTeef Bootleg Headshot master

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    Never.....
    I will never make a poll thread.
     
  12. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, it wouldn't hurt anything other than barracks lasting a little longer, but that's not such a big deal when erepair will definitely not be able to exceed the damage being done by tanks/seismics/mortars.
     
  13. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    yay.

    Because if you actually think, the effect won't be huge but this will be a pretty handy function.

    In a lot of cases, e-repair is really not efficient at all, because you can either switch to engineer or you can just kill the enemy.
    For the other cases, people will be too lazy/dumb to e-repair.

    Also fuck you Candles, e-repair vehicle is legit!
    Actually I have an idea, but this will cost you few more hours, add an area on the vehicle so you can e-repair the vehicle by pointing at it.
     
  14. Empty

    Empty Member

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    i kinda like it
     
  15. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Tbh, e-repair is about addressing a lot of things. Firstly it's handy overall for other classes being able to help. I can't say the number of times it's irked me to pass a turret or small structure out in the field and not be able to repair it, but know that it would die on the next hit. Usually for me I've just spent 2 minutes running from the base to get there, so changing class isn't really an option, it's just annoying.

    Secondly, it reduces blame falling squarely on the engy. These days there's a bit more of an even spread of classes, and it's always fricken ridiculous to have whole bases and opportunities lost just because the other classes can't repair. Everyone always leaves it for someone else, so the engies end up being spread thin, in lots of cases.

    It also helps to combat when you're defending your base, and you're holding an area but the structure near you is dying. When the enemy retreats for a moment, you're usually left just waiting (or getting more ammo) and that's just wasted time. It's pretty silly.

    Thirdly it opens the platform for all classes having build. Yeah, e-build is still slow, but what we could do is buff it, and bring engy repair down to 1.5x by default - removing repair upgrade. I still have those random numbers somewhere..

    Barracks:
    Engy with repair = 20s
    Engy w/o repair = 65s
    (Build is 40s, Regen time is 25s)
    Ebuild = 100s

    Turret:
    Engy with repair = 7.5s
    Engy w/o repair = 15s
    Ebuild = 38s

    Right. What takes a long time with the barracks is that the engy calc has to regenerate ammo in between. That's a flat 25 seconds, which is what causes it to be 65s (or more if you constant build) on large buildings, instead of 40. If we buff normal build by 1.5x, it'd take 30s build time which, with engy ammo being 20s worth of build, would mean it'd take 20+12+10 = 42s instead. The regen needed being 12s. Keep in mind that most people constant build, which takes longer to regenerate ammo.

    So flat time to build a turret would now be around 11s instead of 7.5 or 15.

    If we then buffed ebuild/e-repair to about 80s for a rax (about 30s for a turret), we'd get a more usable ability. It still makes ebuild/e-repair slow, but the biggest problem with using e to do things is it has no regeneration time like the calculator. In that respect, the idea about giving all the classes calcs is better, since we can only really distribute build well if it has an ammo pool. Or an animation with a cooldown (like whacking/tightening things with the spanner we used to have). With that, there'd be a 0.5-1s cooldown each whack, so you could space it a bit better.

    I suppose you wouldn't actually have to remove repair upgrade, but instead you could rework it to address the regeneration penalty or give a larger surplus of ammo. Perhaps combine it with the healing upgrade so that the ammo in general would be more effective. Though in that case you might want to rework the numbers so it was around 1.3-1.4x by default and 1.8-1.9x with the efficiency upgrade.
     
  16. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    It wasn't til I read Ikalx's post that I realized ebuild is half a point of health, or .25, I don't know how much slower it is. Which is weird because for any damage amount below 1 it doesn't do anything.

    Any case increasing total ammo or decreasing charge time is a pretty substantial buff to revive.

    Also why 25 secs for calc regen? It's only like a half second delay for it to start charging again, unless you are talking about people constantly discharging every time they hit 10 charges.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2015
  17. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Yep. That's the biggest problem with that, so it's not really something I'd want to do.

    Edit: Actually, if you did get rid of repair upgrade, you could have the revive upgrade to take 75% of ammo, and then have a synergy bonus with the healing upgrade to reduce that down to 50% ammo (current). Could.

    To regen full calc ammo, it takes 25 seconds. You need two full charges at default (no repair skill) to build a barracks. It takes much longer if you constantly discharge. I did the calculations once... actually just checked, it takes 80s if you constant build. So that's an extra 15s time over all. It's better to just wait to regen all the ammo (25s) instead of adding up to 40s time constant building.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2015
  18. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    That's what I'm not getting, it recharges at the cycle rate so it takes only 20 seconds plus that extra half second startup time. It taking 80 seconds to constantly hold down the button sounds right though.

    That heal synergy sounds decent. Though it also sounds like you should just change revive to a default ability that takes 100% and the revive skill and/or heal can reduce the amount of charge it take. It's kinda hard to take a skill, even an essential one, when you have to take another to really make it work good. Or in this case, work as well as it used to.
     
  19. 101010

    101010 Member

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    Would engineer gain the ability to E-repair ?

    Yeah it sounds retarded..Why not just use the calculator but.
    Some times it comes down to you know the commander is about to drop a new building and you want to save the calculator for the new building. Or it comes down to repairing a lvl 1 or saving calculator for another revive. It would be nice if while waiting for your calculator to recharge you could E-repair.
     
  20. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    They can't ebuild you know.
     

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