Christmas gifts (Empires 2.11, public script repo)

Discussion in 'News' started by Thexa4, Dec 25, 2016.

  1. Rehnquist

    Rehnquist Member

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    Is this the right thread to talk about how awful the new sounds are?
     
  2. thomasfn

    thomasfn Member

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    Recorded some cases where the gren's rocket passes right through some tanks. Sorry about the appalling quality.



    You can see clearly in some cases the rocket just goes right through the tank dealing no damage at all and hitting the wall behind, yet some times it hits fine. I can't yet determine when it's going to hit or not, it seems pretty random so far.
     
  3. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    without looking at the vid; wheels/threads dont have hitboxes
     
  4. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    it looks like it passed right through the middle of a medium.

    in case you cba to watch 45sec of pixels, i guess thats the timestamp in question
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  5. thomasfn

    thomasfn Member

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    Look at the vid. It's passing through the body, not the wheels.

    Look at 0: 34. I wasn't moving, the tank wasn't moving, there was no possible way the client could have got that position wrong. My ping was as normal throughout that entire match, there was no lag spike. Observe all the other times the rocket passed through, you can see it's clearly not laggy at all or any different from when the rocket hit.

    Perhaps it's related to holding left mouse button down to aim the rocket? It seems to happen more often when the rocket is aimed rather than FaF rockets (fire and forget).
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    yes, sry, i changed my post already. i watched the video yesterday, had a wrong memory.

    that abbrevation totally payed off ^^
     
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  7. Smithy

    Smithy Developer Staff Member Administrator

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    It's difficult to do but it is definitely reproducible.
    There were changes made to the missile class for 2.11.0 but even when reverting those changes it is reproducible.
    So far my efforts to debug this has given no clues as to what caused the bug.

    Some tips to reproducing the problem:
    Turn cheats on -> givecurrentammo while holding RPG = gives you 999 ammo
    Raise the self destruct timer on whichever chassis you're using, since it may take more than 300 seconds to repro this bug.
    I've been able to reproduce it on Brenodi heavy tank in a listen server, fire rockets at the side of the chassis; only moving position if your missile didn't go through the chassis.
    Once you get a spot where the missile goes through the chassis don't move, keep firing and some of the rockets will go through some won't.
     
  8. NekoBaron

    NekoBaron Member

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    In the past I've seen mines detonate about 3 feet away to the side of an apc totally making them do minimal damage, its like the detection and the model don't even line up randomly.
     
  9. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    ive seen things you people wouldnt believe. attack ships on fire off the shoulder of orion. i watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the tannhäuser gate. all those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. time to die.
     
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  10. Neoony

    Neoony Member

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    Well that rocket passing through tanks must have been implemented with some recent patches definitely.
    I barely played last 2 or maybe even 3 patches.

    Just want to say that I dont think this is some old bug or so. And must have came with last 2 or 3 patches (bigger bet goes to last 2).
    Or atleast it didnt happen this much.
    So, just want to confirm that it must be very recent.
    (maybe it was some patches before this, just noone noticed until now? ... depends on how noticable it looks in real games)

    Looks REALLY annoying.

    That was always a thing. So I wouldnt relate it to this.
    But yeah, this sometimes seems quite random.
    Sometimes the vehicle needs to literally touch the mine, and sometimes it just explodes few meters away. (might be speed related? no idea)

    ---
    I can imagine, just testing this in each older version could help troubleshoot it. (if someone keeps history of versions) (or maybe just replace with older scripts, but then it could also be some code change that might seem unrelated)

    Is there some nicely readable changelog to scripts now?
    Or you just have to dig through all the changes on git empires_scripts?
    Just asking.
    New system seems nice, because you can check detailed changes. But seems like trouble if you just want to quickly read the changes done in some specific patch.
    Or Iam just missing it.

    (which I can imagine could give less awareness of scripts and changes to the general public)
     
  11. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    i have to concur ive had this happen in previous patches aswel, but only like once every 5 games.
     
  12. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    why is 3slot ranged canon only 7 damage more? it costs like 50 more per, and weights 10 more per but only gives 7? I thought 3slot canons were going to be tank killers so we wouldnt have super long dragged on fights.... wtf
     
  13. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    hemg 3 slot-> heat got tripled, damage raised from 10->13 takes more weight. Still dooes shit all damage.
    Both HEMG2 slot and 3 slot seem so fucking shit. Like I played with it for 10 minutes and its like mfw it does no damage. Did it get nerfed, or did armor get buffed.
    Also the entire tank experience seems like is way tankier and EVEN FUCKING SLOWER. mfw we basicly came to consensus on the forum it needs to be faster, and now its slower

    just asked ingame, senor awesome confirms with " a bit "
     
  14. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    As far as I know hemg still does double whatever damage it says it does. Something to consider.
     
  15. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    So theoretically it should be even more shit than I tested? Thats even worse
     
  16. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    ???? If it say it does 13 it's really doing 26, though thanks to the magic of falloff and decimal being dropped it's doing 24 or 25(I'm not to sure how damage is being doubled so I can't say what's actually going on.) On that note I don't see values for fall off and min damage, I remember hearing it just uses default values if nothing is imputed but I don't know what those values are, so I would hazard a guess that that the min damage could be quite low, meaning it doesn't really do anything at a distance. At least this is what I remembered from testing it out before, I could damage buildings with hemg next to them, but I couldn't at a distance at all.

    So what I'm trying to say is that DU might seem much more effective even at a range because it actually has a min damage value, it will always do that much damage. Bio mg's damage is from the bio effect, which isn't related to distance at all either. I could be slightly off with all this being it so long since I really worked with scripts, but I don't feel like I'm wrong here.

    As far as I understand the 3 slot weapons aren't meant to be extreme tank killers, they are just about 10% more damage really. After all heavy tanks can still equip 2 of any of these weapons, along with having something like 40% more cooling then meds or lights, so it's a bit silly for it to do ridiculous damage. It's still 20% more damage in total compared to just using 2 slot weapons. Several other points on why I think 3 slots shouldn't do tons of damage are:
    • High dps annihilates buildings. We had this problem with triple ml and old 3 slot homing, they would just tear down buildings in seconds. I know you say so what heavies should be ending games like that, but this brings me to my next point.
    • Heavies can be gotten at around the 22 minute mark. Having the end game at what most would consider the middle point of the game is a bit derp. Obviously this has all to do with how research is free and there's no real penalties to going straight for heavies, but while that's still a thing I really wouldn't want empire matches to basically end within a half hour.
    • If heavies have such a massive difference in damage because of 3 slots they simply make mediums obsolete. The research time difference is only about 4.5 minutes to get heavies instead of mediums, and 3 slot weapons are 1 minute 45 seconds. While it's nearly 2 minutes to get the 3 slots heavies still have access to 2 slots in the mean time, it shouldn't be a case they get 3 slots and it's suddenly gg. Currently a load of mediums can fight against heavies, but that don't mean anything if a heavy can blow a medium up in 2 shots, like what old dual homing was like for a month. I don't like the idea of completely invalidating something so easily, at least with nukes and turrets nukes take awhile and suck in tank fights.
    Honestly 3 slots that did do tons of damage wouldn't be an awful concept if we had better ways to build to it besides time, and resources aren't a much better alternative either because it just dicks over the losing team, not even that they are losing by a huge amount either. I don't have a good suggestion for this and I have voiced my opinions on the 3 slot system several times, I don't really like the idea honestly, but if this is the way security wants to take then that's fine.
     
  17. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    1: 2-slot HEMG so shit?
    2-slot HEMG has been the same for ......a while, I'll just say a while.

    We already open source'd our script files for people to check and I did write a detailing 2.11.X change log.

    2: 3-slot HEMG has triple heat and dat shit damage?
    First, it's just double heat.
    Second, has it occurred to you that you can only load 3-slot HEMG on an APC and it would be the only heat source of the APC? (Unless you also want to load a GL and make your APC super glassy.)

    Last, has it also occurred to you that it's gonna break our fragile early-game balance if I grant 3-slot MG with a ton of damage OR the same weight as 2-slot variant?
    Have you guys forgot about that APC warfare(comm : Don't get LT/AFV, everyone get APCs) before 2.7.0?

    3: 3-slot weapons should rekt everything.

    That, is how you tell everyone to rush 3-slot weapons and heavy tanks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  18. Neoony

    Neoony Member

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    This RPG passing through tanks is much worse than I expected xD
    Happens pretty damn often.
    Like majority of my shots xD
     
  19. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    My point was, it seems like 2 slot HEMG is even worse, like I Said in my text, Iduno if its nerfed or buffed, but it just FEEEELS SLOW.
    and 3 slots HEMG should do more damage imho. Its so sad that I have to litterally use my entire clip to take of 1 plate of armor. ( exageration, but thats how it feels )

    Also I dont see the point having 3 slot weapons when they are equal to 2 slot weapons if you look at it overal. They cost more weigh more and do little more damage.
    But you also have to research longer to get them ( you need heavies to field them ) etc etc.

    Heavies 3 slot weapons shouldnt feel like they are basicly equivalent to mediums 2 slot weapons. Just like mediums 2 slot weapons DONT feel like an equivalent to light tanks standard 1 slot weapon. Why the fuck else did we decide to implement 3 slot weapons? For the joy of variation? Cause that doenst make sense at all.
    Atleast a 3 slot mg for APCs would be actually WORTH getting if you did that. Ive honestly never gotten a vehicle killing MG on my apc BECAUSE ITS FUCKING USELESS.

    Apc's are made to spawn and kill infantry thats what they are effective at seemingly. If you want me to put on a 3 slot mg MAKE IT DO DAMAGE. AND MAKE IT SO I DONT HAVE 1 PLATE ON EVERY SIDE.

    Apc's are completely fucking shit in vehicular combat even in a support kind of way. 1 afv or lt rushes through and just eats through the 1 plate of armor max 2 plates.


    edit: I lied I do sometimes get 3slot mg on apcs, 50 cal is fucking amazing.
     
  20. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Upgrading 2 of your 2 slot weapons to 3 slots is 1 plate of armor, big whoop. Yes they cost more, but when you consider there's a limit to how much fire power you can put on a tank it makes sense if you want to increase damage somehow. Continuing with changing just 2 weapons for 3 slots, it's only about 100 more res for those 2 weapons, considering you have to remove that plate though for 15 res that's like 6% overall increase of cost for a heavy. Again, big whoop.

    Even if there's virtually no limit to tanks on a field there's a limit to how many you can reliably get into tanks, giving them all an overall increase in damage by like 20% is nothing to laugh at.

    Anti tank apcs aren't to be laughed at either, the problem is you have yet to find a competent player to go around apcing with. I mean 3 slot du can do 70 dps, and while dps is a useless statistic for empires it does apply for anti tank mgs. That's old rails tier damage, it's crazy high. If you had 2 it should be enough to melt any light tank in like 3-4 seconds if you can hit one side of the tank. It gets even better if you have engies build a couple of walls protecting the apc so it can shoot over it but lights can't just barge into it. Yes they don't have much armor, that's the trade off for doing obscene amounts of damage to tanks.
     

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