Change Squad revive

I think you misunderstand me when I say simulation, Im not talking about theory crafting extreme situations but the normal situation. How people who dont play empires regularly think empires is played.

 

Maybe. Are there different things that actually happen these days? Since whenever I play I can't really see it.

 

The way viroman and flasche make it seem is that squad rev behind enemy lines is super deadly and fucks up the entire game.

What really happens 9 times out of 10 is that squad revs behind enemy lines go wrong because of a multitude of things to name a few:

1. Only 2 killspawning
2. Immediately getting killed cause tanks and other stuff
3. Not accomplishing anything

When it does pay off you get a rax up and you take a bit of ground temporarily.

All this stuff adds more chaos to the game which is good.

1/10 probably way less than 1/10 times you make a decisive move by squadrevving 4 and doing something substantial: permanently taking ground or destroying base , building a really good rax behind their lines etc etc.

This is only the fraction of squadrevs that happen BEHIND enemy lines which is like 1-2 percent.

The main part of squadrevs is on the frontlines where you are fighting toe to toe and squad revving is to reorganize your squads.



I feel like the reason flasche and viroman are so against it is because the rare time something really substantial happens they notice its because of a squad rev. But its also because you are probably facing against squad full of highly skilled vets.

Like reznov said, if you are so careless to let an engineer who doesnt have hide or anything through your lines into the belly of the beast, then squadrev 4 squadmates and destroy your entire base without your team defending. You deserve to lose. NOTE: The easyest way to deal with squad revs is to build a vehicle.

tldr 1000 squadrevs happen every game, 1/1000 is something cool.

 

So basically you're saying what I was saying and that people aren't that skilled these days so squad revving behind enemy lines isn't a problem?

I wish people would realise what they're saying when they're saying it. Since you're basically saying that focusing on the downsides becomes highly relevant again, once there are good players on the field.

 

Havent I been saying this all this all the time? ... Like if you reread my posts about squadrev Ive been pro squad rev for this sole reason, in this thread and the other saying squadrev isnt op, it just shines when you put it in a squad of vets who shine anyway.

edit: Im not saying people these days arent that skilled though because they are still good players. I'm saying people wether now or 2 years ago still have problems fighting against squadrev behind enemy lines because most of the time when something rare like this occurs its a highly skilled squad behind enemy lines that either way will be better than the general population of that server.

 

If a good squad manages to bypass all defenses and manages to squad revive behind enemy lines next to a CV/building/flag, they deserve the victory. You can't keep on blaming squad-revive for being OP if it that is the only situation you guys can manage to think of.

If you guys want to keep going like that you could just go ahead and say "APC rushes are OP, nerf them." or "Squad-hide shouldn't make you completely invisible when you hug a wall and run!" because they have the same capabilities as squad-revive if used well.

 

I couldn't resist...

 

Its perspective on what is OP and not. Your entire base of defence is based on the fact that its OP in your oppinion.

 

Actually, you are saying they're not that skilled. You're just saying you don't want to demean good players and say that they're crap.

Look, there's only two reasons to not use something that will give you an advantage in the game:

1. You can't use it/don't know about it, or
2. You don't want to use it because it will lessen your enjoyment of the game.

Now #2 is most of the reason a lot of people don't do certain things in the game. We all know they're broken, but we don't use them because it's just lame. In this particular case, that means that feature should be phased out or rehauled so that it's not lame but still provides its original and intended functionality. So like 9 mine. Wasn't exactly "lame" just insane.

#1 is the time where you say people aren't very good at using the ability. To the point where abuse of a feature isn't really an issue. In 9 mine's case that would basically mean someone couldn't walk into an enemy's base. Same with squad revive.

In more recent years, the thing I see most often and most consistently, is a complete lack of defences around a base and the ability for pretty much anyone to walk in and out of it without being challenged. Part of that is down to the lack of defensive structures we have. A large part of that, however, is down to the fact that people just don't put down any defences.

And something else that happens much more often - people don't come back to a base when it's under attack.

You guys are going to be playing the league soon. I guarantee that after three matches, you will see an easy, cheap win, and will have to start responding to that. And if the league actually goes on for any amount of time, people will start expecting that level of play in normal pubplay...because it is basically normal play. Just not getting used that much atm.

So when you say people shouldn't comment on things because they don't know how the game is played now, it's more than a little silly, because the way the game is played now is basically a less advanced version of how it was played. Once things get back up to that level, all those issues you pushed to one side become incredibly relevant again.

Look, I know that I can get in game and have virtually anyone wipe me out with infantry weapons now. For me, that's fine. What I really want is to have someone like you say that I don't know how the game is played now, and then I will go into the game and see strategies and tactics that I've never seen before. Not just "I'll use plasma!" which is just research, and that always changes, but actual different ideas and play styles.

Instead what I see is the same basic mistakes that were always made. That were made by newbies and vets alike. More mistakes in addition, too, such as not caring about main, not communicating well, not bothering about vehicles or infantry that get past your lines. The crazy crap I see is just ridiculous. And I only play when there are lots of people on, and I still see crazy crap like "whoops, apc is behind us...ah well".

Of course no one needs to use squad rev in those games. People will let a whole party-bus through instead.

 

Ok, so if I get this straight, you don't want to squad-revive your squad behind enemy lines because it would destroy your enjoyment of the game?

... please, get off your high horse.

And 2nd, if one player forfeits the game because of an APC rush (or anything similar that could lead to a prompt end), then let him go switch to spec if he so desires to. No one is forcing people to listen to anybody. And this is even less likely to happen in a league where people WANT to win/have fun with the upcoming matches.

 

You want me to be bruttaly honest, cause in the past this hasnt worked in my favor. If I'm bruttally honest everyone is fucking shit. They used to be shit and now they are still shit. Everyone just complains more about it now. I used to do squadrevs constantly with xya and nihia ( this was3-4 years ago ) destroying bases in less than a minute and generally creating chaos and winning the game. Noone complained about it cause as fast as we did that they could do the same or even kill us just by using vehicles.

I mean the counter to squad revving is so goddamn easy but people are just too lazy to do it. How hard is it to buy a tank and just shoot us down.

Security is one of the only people I know to actively punish infantry on the backlines by getting an afv and demolishing any attempt.

Squadrev isnt op you're just all shit. There I said it.

Also the skill level between now and then is still the same, the stuff you said about people not performing well because of basic tactical failures is because theres no incentive to defend well or do the easy stuff because noone does what we do anymore.

They used to be able to deal with squadrevs and advanced tactics way more because it happend way more.

People arent shittier they are lazier.

 

I don't think I have said anything subjective, I just mentioned it being preventable and there being other methods which have the same effect as squad-revive if you have teamwork.

If you keep making points which consist out of "It is not fun" and "It shouldn't end the game in an instant" then I won't change my mind.

Only thing I can think of changing with squad-revive is the fact that you insta-revive them without delay. A delay on the revive would make sense, i.e. when you activate squad-revive you have to wait 5 seconds until they respawn next to you. We could add a charging sound-effect to it making it sound like a teleport.

Also squad-revive is still bugged where if you hug a wall you might revive 2 out of 4 people and still lose 6 points.

 

Im not sure what you are trying to say with this post cause all I can think of is points arent a good measurement for skill or impact is what you are trying to convey.