better vehicle restriction

than the comm could choose another limit for how many jeeps the team can build

 

I get Your point, but separate restrictions seem better (and easier to code) for me

 

<SIGH> I wish that people would stop knocking jeeps. Yes, noobs tend to spam them a lot, but they are very useful in the right hands:

• Taxis: Yes, I know all of the arguments about using an APC instead, and, generally, I agree with them. However, nothing is faster or cheaper than a jeep for getting from point A to B. I use one all the time as engineer to get around the base fast while building it up, then race off to the next refinery or the front lines. They also let me get quickly out of harm's way if a tank shows up unexpectedly.
• Scouting: Because of their speed and tight handling and turn radius, they can cover the map, and easily (and literally) run rings around any tank they come across. While on a run, I generally just bob and weave and then totally ignore any armor that wants to take me out: it just doesn't have a chance to. (Hehehe One time, I harassed a tank so much by running around and glancing off of it that I was able to lead it into a turret ambush, then keep it from getting away.:D)
• Turret Trigger: Especially with three-phase engines, jeeps are the perfect lead element for a armor assault, for the simple reason that they can pull the first missile launch from ML turrets, leaving the armor a clear shot at the enemy base. In fact, if you have a couple sprinting across the enemy turret line, your armor can get right into their base without taking a single hit. Heck, I've raced right through a line of a half-dozen ML turrets and behind their buildings while only taking two hits. (While missiles may not be slower than jeeps, they have a much larger turning radius.)
• Carmagedon/Death Race 2000: 'Nuff said? :p

 

We are not saying jeeps should be removed from the game. We are saying that it's the commander that should decide if all players should be able to produce jeeps or if he rather want's to produce/unlock jeep (when experienced player requests it and says what he will use the jeep for) without blocking the entire vehicle factory compleatly.

 

I posted on the organize thread:
http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?p=109234#post109234

I included some new thoughts that may not be discussed there, but feel free to discuss it in THIS topic.

 

can anyone else see discussions like this coming up when we get air crafts?

"STOP SPAMMING CROP DUSTING BIPLANES DAMNIT!"

^_^

I dont know if this is completely necessary. Giving the com the ability to micro manage the entire game to this extent, I don't think it's wise.

Lets not turn this into lemmings for HL2 please.

If you are getting res so slow that a person buying a 50 res jeep makes it so that you can't buy a 250 res apc, you probably aren't going to win the map anyways.

that and if there are that many people sitting in base making jeeps, theres a whole nother problem all together. Those people who litterally jeep spam are probably just griefers, and would simply find some other way to ruin things for people like walling off the vf or building turrets to block vehicles from getting out.

I say this because I haven't had hardly any problems at all with people building jeeps in any games I've played so far. the only times i have problems is when I want to get a med or heavy tank, and people keep getting lights.

 

as for the jeep problem and the fun nay sayers, the commander would be able to put a max amount of jeeps

how about,Commander tactic shapeing.

Vehicle construct restriction:
[0/2] jeep - MINIMUM 1 or 2.
[0/10] apc
[0/10] light tank
[0/10] medium tank
[0/10] heavy tank
[0/10] artilery

Designed for the i want win and do what i like,tolerance.

And as for experianced players,grant extra slot of maxed slot,to the 10-20% last game highest score.

 

Oh, I understand that completely, and agree. Being able to restrict builds on a per-vehicle level would be very handy. I'm just tired of people whining about jeeps all of the time.

What would also be handy would be the ability to select one or more people, select the factory tab, then change the restrictions for just those people. This would both allow only the best players to build vehicles as they need when resources are low, and keep griefers from doing things like building tanks, then blocking the VF.

 

Then you open up the option of personal victimisation

and yes,
I would ban VERY BSID memeber form getting vehicles in revenge for beating us in the league that time :p

 

this is (for me) not the problem, some people tend to buy a jeep drive to the front and die, and they do this like 213123 times.

 

In this topic, by spamming jeeps We mean NOT the classic vehicle spamming and leaving it around, but buying a jeep, riding to the front and get killed, buy another jeep and do the same. In fact I've seen many people do that.

That is exacly the same problem.
With the feature we are discussing implemented, You can ask comm to block LTs and he can do it. Compare it to Empires 2.1(1), what's better?
You either have a smart comm, or a dumb one, but it is his responsibility to make Your team win and it is HIS decision what to do with res.

holylucifer:
Your solution fails if people use jeeps as taxi and the jeep won't die and it will be near enemy base and enemy will not destroy it because they don't want You to spawn a new car. You will be forced to walk on foot until those jeeps die, ha ha. They could even wall the vehicles they find or push them to their base and then wall it.

If the jeep dies, n00b will still buy 1 jeep, ride and die, buy another jeep, ride and die even faster, etc... So it barely solves anything at all.

DeadlyDad:
this solution is too complex. If You want only certain people to have certain vehicles You restrict them and unrestrict for a while when asked or You spawn it Yourself. If we go further (as You would want to), then we can go as far as to invent our own scripting language to enable better controll by commander.

-Mayama-:
exacly! Jeeps die fast. Limiting their number is not a solution.

 

Elitism here we go.. Sure it would be effective if a spammer does it, but think of it,

''OMG! Lord Dz entered the game, nobody shall be able to build tanks! Give the best shit to him!''

= No new players.

 

We are making it seem too complex, all that needs to be done is to add specific vehicle restrictions, and when the need arises the comm can restrict certain vehicles due to the current circumstances

this isn't just jeeps, it's all vehicles in general that are being taken into account here

if you were to implement it into the game, the comm could only use it if necessary, not all the time, but enough to keep good game flow running, heck, on all the fun/crazy servers they could just skip this selection and move on

 

1. From a programming standpoint, it is dead simple. A bit-flag integer for each player is all that is needed to store the appropriate permissions. (A scripting language would be rather handy, but, in this case, not necessary.)
2. As it takes slightly more time and effort to use, noobs won't usually use it, but experienced commanders will appreciate the fine control it gives them;
   • Players that take care of their vehicles can always build one, and those that don't, can't.
   • They don't have to keep interrupting what they are doing to lock and unlock the VF.
   • They can avoid 'paper tank syndrome'.

...and who in their right mind is going to ever again vote for someone who was a total ass as a commander? MILITARY DEMOCRACY FTW!!!

 

I totally agree with you. Even though I'm not fond of jeeps I have never lost a game because some one made a jeep instead of an APC at the start. I simply wait 5 seconds and make an APC. Giving the commander all those powers would simply take the fun out of the game. For the argument of locking paper heavys....seriously? Research armor and guns first instead of phailing and locking the tanks

 

I still hold to my opinion that a per-vehicle and per-player lock would be greatly appreciated by many COM's, BUT it is also true that a few would spoil a single game for those on his team (Think about it; would anyone vote for him again?), and many wouldn't use it, even if they know about it. To that end, I vote that it be included in the 'to do' list, with a server variable to turn it off and on, as desired by the admins. It wouldn't be hard to program, and would be a powerful tool against.. well.. tools.

 

no way on earth can you do a per player lock. that's totally against the ethic of any game developer as a developer of a GAME. you cannot single out players, for bonuses or for punishments, because that is not FUN or FAIR. the reason people play the game is to have fun. There is no way they krenzo in his right mind would add that.

What's more there is so much potential for griefing here. furthermore, this gives commanders a way to further inflict pain on the team by deciding that certain people that don't agree with the 6 armours he has researched don't deserve to get vehicles.

There are already commanders that get pissed with what players do and suicide the comm vehicle or lock the comm vehicle. but a lot of them don't, a lot of them just threaten to. because although that one person is pissing them off, they don't want to inflict that punishment on the rest of the game. and that's great, because it means that commanders can't vent their frustration out on players like that.

One person's "tool" is another man's hero. in other words, expert commanders might, in SOME RARE situations use this to stop a persistant jeep taxi builder building. but a lot of the time, commanders worse than the players on the ground will be locking players that know what they are doing out.

per player lock. are you serious?

 

well in the recent games where i was comm (what means i bitched an newb out of it and took over and did my best to save my teams ass, prove 4 from 6 won, only the first 2 lost) i always wished to micromanage especially the vehicle creation but also know from a players perspective that preconstructed vehicles probably suck as that they don't fit the personal fire circuiting and such

so i do love the idea of locking specific vehicle classes AND equipment out, when you take over a nearly lost game and have the need for specific vehicles without forcing your players to refit to have them their needs or if you dont want to bitch all the time over microphone to the idiots doing shit while you basically could give out wallhacks to your front and keep them informed on research status and enemys in sight, this idea (together with equipment restrict and i personally would say blacklisting people from creation at all) would do an awesome job

 

Damn right, I'm serious. A COM has enough on his hands trying to win the game; he shouldn't have to deal with idiots and griefers screwing up his plans. You seem to forget the the COM is playing an RTS. If he only has enough resources for a few lights and a good plan to use them, and, before all of his light squad has had a chance to build their tanks, some numbnuts decides to do a suicide rush with a heavy, he has just screwed up the plan to turn the game around. I've lost count of how many times I've heard a COM tell people what to do, and be completely ignored. He'll say "Don't build jeeps. Build an APC and take it to A4", but sure enough, some moron will build a jeep and take off, delaying the building of the APC, and by the time it gets to A4, it is running into ML & MG turrets protecting a partially built enemy base. Could he have locked the VF and built an APC himself? Of course, except for the minor matter of trying to get a million other things organized, built, researched, etc. So he locks out the VF for everyone except the people involved in the current plan, and HEY! It works.

If you want CAL, go find another game. In this game, the COM is the boss. Period. Winning or losing, it's all on him. If he won't let me build, then I expect that he has a good reason. If he is an ass, I not only won't ever vote for him again, but I'll let everyone else know that he is an ass. What I'd like is a per-server COM ranking system, where, after a game, everybody gets to vote whether or not they would have that person as COM again, and his COM ranking would go up by either 0 or 1, depending on how the vote went. If he was a total ass, the 'kick COM' voting system should drop his rank by 10 if it goes through. That way, people voting for COM will have a better idea of how good he will do right off the bat.

As COM, not being able to punish idiots pisses me off no end! The COM should basically have temporary, limited admin powers to kick players that are being 'gluteal orifices', etc. And if there are people that I can trust to follow orders, take care of their 'toys', and think for themselves, then, yes, I will trust them, and them alone, to build vehicles if resources are tight. Putting someone in charge, then not giving him any power to keep people in line or make the best use of good players is just sheer stupidity.

On most of the servers I've played on, this isn't a game for 'kiddy' fun, where you do whatever you want, whenever you want, however you want. There are rules, and you are expected to follow them, including obeying your commander, so that everybody can enjoy the game. That's how adults have fun.

I wouldn't have said anything if I didn't think that it was important enough to be said. I make my decisions base on analysis and experience, and they are usually square on. When they are not, I'm always willing to discuss differences in opinion with maturity and respect. If you can convince me that I am wrong, I have no problem admitting it. On the other hand, your bullshit evaluation of my ideas, like "totally against the ethic of any game developer" or "One person's 'tool' is another man's hero." doesn't exactly endear you to me or make you look particularly intelligent. If you don't like my attitude, fine. That's your opinion, and you are welcome to it. Just don't attack me personally, or I'll rip you a new one and stuff it full of rifle butt.

 

From what i understand of programming and such, it would be virtually impossible to do a per-player basis of vehicle creation.

1)Com would have to much on his hands trying to single out people​

2)Com would have to know about peoples gaming habits, skill and such, you would have to make a whole system to do that, which probably wouldn't work anyway​

3)Players who just joined would be singled out automatically, because they wouldn't have a high enough score to allow them to build vehicles​

4)way too complex​

per-vehicle restriction would work well enough, and would be easy to impliment (alls it is is more variables and conditional statements)