NFAR and BEAR are lasers. SMG 2 isn't. I think it is ok. For example at least I can't survive engineer vs. rifleman fights on my SMG 2. Most of the time I just die.
i don't really notice that much of a difference between smg2 and smg1 honestly. at close range 1v1 SMG fights it usually comes down to who's a better shooter/player, in my experience. you could say smg's have too much 'distance' but to get any accuracy at long range you have to be crouching which significantly increases your chances of getting killed. i think it's pretty even right now, it would be too much to take away both SMGs from engineers, but perhaps giving engineers (exclusively) a slightly weaker SMG would do the trick. on another note regarding weapons. Is there any chance we could get weapon stats displayed in the class choice menu (damage, accuracy, ect...)
i think this issue has been discussed quite a bit in my absence (mini-vacation in WI), but i wanted to add my 2 cents about potential smg changes: accuracy/recoil it's obvious the smg2 needs adjustment (rc changes not taking affect?). i think the issue with both smgs is that you can empty a clip with either gun in the crouching/prone pos and not veer off your target very much. whether this is an issue with accuracy or recoil or what other value, this is what allows you to decimate someone from a great distance. i think increasing the after effects of a shot to make it more difficult to stay on target would help. damage/rof i'm not convinced the damage needs to be reduced, especially if the ability to consistently shoot a target is reduced (see above). to offset smg2's increased damage, perhaps its rof should be decreased and/or the clipsize be reduced to 25. WIO (whip it out) rate someone had posted saying it's quicker to whip out an smg2 than an smg1. i'm not sure if there's validity to that, and if there is whether that's a bug or not, but if there is supposed to be a difference it should take longer to whip out the smg2. it's arguable that since it does greater damage it might be more difficult to charge the smg2, taking a fraction of a second longer to "whip it out" than its less-damaging counterpart. i am not eager to nerf the eng class, as i still have sympathy for my lil defenseless scv's from Starcraft, but i agree the smg's could be adjusted to act more like rl smg's (vague, but i hope u catch my drift). regarding the argument that eng's get experience too quickly on inf maps (escort, district, ..) from reviving teammates, what if revive was taken away from eng's and left only to squad leaders who have sufficient squad points? i'm not saying this should be implemented, but i would like to consider this issue from every angle.
are you crazy? i mean to take engi rev would completely change gameplay not to mention there would be no reason to play engi sure you could heal and give ammo but thats not enough people can always go to crates for that yes we may have lot of points that are not from kills but we hardly ever get points from something other(you dont happen to heal 200hp that fast and other classes will kill you including gren)
Alright, I have been trying to stay with the topic, and after reading most of everyones praises or complaints I think we have established a good way to balance SMG's. SMG1: No change in damage or RoF, small spread increase. The only change is we put one of those nifty distance caps that only allow it to shoot up to lets say 60-70 meters or in empires terms something like the distance from the middle flag in district to the nf flag, maybe shorter. SMG2: Hopefully get the spread working on it, because right now spread doesn't seem to do much. So increase the spread on it greatly, and max range it at about 55 meters.
That would actually be very interesting. I'll be honest it sux being stuck as an engineer on maps like escor and district. Sure I do it and have fun doing, but being an engineer w/ revive is almost an obligation. Lots of deaths come from stupidly running out to revive. Sure may would result in fewer engineers but then they could go play a class thats IMO more fun w/ the mortaring n rifling and lots of scouting. Switch the skill with increased engi build ammo :D
actually, if noone would be an engineer than no squad leaders would have revive capability and there'd be no revives period. yes, i'm that crazy to think about the big picture since new features have been added (squad leader abilities, namely) until the smg's get adjusted, we can still definitely get points from kills. it's true this drastic a change would change the way the eng class is played, but i believe that's what this thread is in part discussing. eng's exp point get nitrous-boosted from rev's which are in addition to killing/repairing/building. perhaps an alternative would be to reduce the amount of exp points received from reviving someone, similar to the grenadier's defuse -- eg, 2 revs = 1 exp point instead of 1:1 ratio. "only you can make my song take flight.."
squad leader abilities are nice but if squad leader is dead and you have no way to rev him people would abuse changing squads even more also that would make engi more or less useless but i like to play as engi all the time in RC26 SMG2 has huge spread its not deathray anymore you should try it but idea to reduce exp from reviving to 0.5 is quite good no more 120+ scores and it wont hurt engi that much
If I'd have to comment on this whole thing, I'd actually say that the smgs are fine, sure the smg is a bit over powered, and mybe the spread should be kicked out a bit, but other than that, if your a capable player, youll own who you need to, cause youll be fighting whoever your going against within your class's effective range, or youll die. simple as that. I say kick the spread out just a bit (not too much or itll be an smg3) and yeah... learn how to shoot back people....
it seemed exactly the same to me.. i used it on duststorm and killed 6 people before someone else with an smg2 gunned me down
i received the impression from krenzo that smg's hadn't been touched in rc26:eek: .5 exp from reviving a teammate ftw
if they havent been changed then those people who have complained about it being nerfed too much (mainly avair) obviously are against fixing it for personal reasons
no one goes engineer anymore..... So I guess those buildings,turrets,foward bases,refinerys, and damaged ammoless tanks just take care of them selfs... And your saying that now(after no change has been made) the pistol is suddenly better then the smg at medium range.....
I just did a compare between RC 25 and 26. There was definitely no change to the SMG 2. OMG, THERE'S AN EPIDEMIC OF PLACEBO I guess if people think the SMG 2 is worse, then we won't actually have to nerf it.
I just tested out the SMG2 on the official server. Those are my changes, and I even nerfed it a bit more on my computer. But I'll see how everyone reacts to it and then I'll see what to do. BTW, if you want range, use the SMG1. Epic liez :p I clearly remember firing SMG2 full auto (you can even see it in this video: http://stage6.divx.com/user/Beerdude26/video/1680906/Weapon-Balancing As you can see, in the first video (official server), the crosshair doesn't even move. Second video are my even further nerfed scripts (not the one on the server right now). But currently, the SMG2 on the server loses accuracy dramatically when you go through it on full-auto.
Maybe he accidentally overwrote it in RC25 or inserted it for RC26. No idea, but it's different, I'm sure of that.
you need to under stand the difference between nerfing and FIXING a weapon you bitch about having to use the pistol for medium to long range kills.. just read what cerveza dude said.. use the smg 1
.... omg... i feel like im teaching a speical ED class this is just backing up my entire smg argument in the first place.. the smg 1 is not up to par with the smg 2.. everyone chooses the smg 2 and that needed to be fixed... and i do use the smgs all the time.. how can you even make assumptions like that?! thats like me saying you never eat pizza
They do 20/22 dmg (NF/BE) per shot. With such high accuracy, I'd say that's pretty decent. With a perfect lineup, you'll still kill a player in 0.5 seconds. If you let five bullets slip, you still get him in a second. And no need to start insulting people.
