Allow teams to retrieve a CV if they lose it in the first 2 minutes?

The Question

Should you allow a team that loses their CV (e.g. the COMM dies) to retrieve the vehicle if this happens in the first few minutes?


The Argument

To allow

Maybe it's for the two or three people who catch the CV it's fun, but not really for everyone else who wanted to play that map.

Personally I would rather play the map through than just have it end.

To not allow

I see why people want to end it then (e.g. they don't like the map, they figure they won and the map should end, etc).

The team who caught the CV should win right then and there.


Background

I was playing a match on money and the NF CV rushed and the commander died. It was about 2 minutes into the game. The BE commander wanted his team to let NF get their vehicle back.

As an administrator, I figured, if the winning team's commander wants to give the other team their vehicle back, they should be able to. A few BE team members didn't want to let NF have their CV back, so a few freezes and slays were needed to satisfy the wishes of the BE commander.

After thinking about what went on in that match (BE won), I started thinking, did I do the right thing?

I'm not interested in you guys flaming or anything, I'm just looking for a yes / no / maybe / do something else next time.

 

Kill the CV. If a person gets the cv killed by rushing it, maybe they won't be a moron next time they com.

Putting the CV directly into harms way is a huge risk. If it wasn't a huge risk, then I wouldn't mind rushing it into the middle of no where for shits and giggles, saying oops, and letting someone on my team retrieve it. Death huge way to make it so that people don't even attempt something stupid.


As far as situations as described above, well, if the CV is empty, buildings aren't being dropped. Research isn't going. The enemy will be at a significant, and in the case of money, irreversible disadvantage. Just end it and hope your team doesn't voteban you for being a douche.

 

Ya some of these maps (if their not emp_money) aren't that fun to play so it's nice once in a while if we can get through a map in 3 minutes or less.

 

The guy was obviously rushing to get somekind of advantage , probably a fast forward rax. Doing so is obviously a huge risk, if he fails you should let him die. People need to learn what is and is not worth the risk, and people should kow not to vote happy rushing comms. Playing god and freezing/slayign people to let them get their CV back is lame - if the team goes on to win the match it will not be a real win because they had admin assistance. Restarting the map and telling them not to vote noobcomms is OK, but u shouldn't be freezing and slaying people who are only playing the game honestly.

If you do this frequently you will end up with a lot of rusher comms who will do outragously stupid rushes because they know if they fail the admin will get them their CV back, if they don't fail they will have an easier win.

 

I think rushing is already being mostly addressed by locking the CV's movement briefly at the start of the game?

However, I agree that even then, we don't want to give the comm any 'invulnerability time' or a period during which they're expendable or anything like that. Even if rushing isn't a huge issue, I just don't like the idea of people charging forwards as soon as the CV unlocks.

Maybe the CV could be made invulnerable during the time period when it's locked, though? It's not a very long period of time, and that would avoid the concern that locking it could make it more vulnerable to rushes. And, of course, you can't rush with a locked CV, so the invulnerability would not be abusable.

 

As an admin, anything you do is the right thing. :p


...Not to say that I approve. :confused:
Unless it's an explicit rule in your MOTD that CVs shouldn't be trapped in the early game, I don't think it's within a commander's discretion, if you will, to show the other team mercy, and so there's no necessity for his team to obey such orders.

 

Hahahahaaaa, you'd think, wouldn't you.

Edit:
I'm a 100% against letting your cv be captured by the enemy because YOU don't like the map. Everyone who complains about the map hates it (like 6 people), almost everyone who does not complain about it wants to play it (the other 30 players). On a server with 16 or more players map skipping should simply never be done. The server owner puts it in the rotation for a reason. If you don't like the map rotation, learn to live with it or go to another server, or tell an admin or the server owner why you think a map shouldn't be in rotation (unfinished custom maps, missing textures, ...)

Personal opionion:
I hate it when i see a comm rush alone, followed by the line "defeated" on your scoreboard in only 2 minutes.
But with 2.2 cv rushes will be a lot less problematic already, so let's see how things play out in the next version first.

 

This is sorted in 2.2.

Also, I used to get shouted at for doing that Recon, just a heads up.

 

Really, that map should have been restarted, the NF com drove straight to the middle to build a rax, alone .... i killed him with my pistol1, while standing next to him, i was able to melee him, he didnt run for the cv or got his smg out, he just stand there repairing ...

 

I know I just don't like it when a map only lasts for 2 minutes or so because the comm got captured in the very beginning of the game. Pretty much ruins the game for the map, especially if I really like the map. :\

 

I believe Nachos has an ungrief plugin that allows an admin to teleport a commander out of the water. I'd say let the team get their CV back if it was griefed, but not if the comm rushed and died.

 

I vote no because it's the teams fault if they vote a dum dum commander.

 

Also, the first two minutes of the game are, well, the first two minutes.

I hate it when the game is decided in the first two minutes, but then drags on for half an hour of brutal rape. If it's decided and immediately ends in the first few minutes, though? That's a minor annoyance at worst. It's not really worth worrying about.

 

There was a reason I was asking that I didn't tell you guys up front, and I think I have a good answer now that Kane posted.

It's REALLY hard to tell the difference between a griefer and a good comm rushing. If he didn't even try to get back in his CV, I wonder if he was just trying to end the map.

 

If they comm rush and it ends badly, then they deserve to lose. Otherwise, there would be no risk involved.

 

Nah, it doesn't make any sense. If the comm has died somewhere out in the middle of nowhere, by the time his team gets the cv back, pulls back, starts fortifying, the game is pretty much already decided. Best thing to do is ban the griefer (if any) and restart the map.

 

Not if you're spectating.

Griefers drive all the way into the enemy base and don't even bother to build anything.
Good comm rushes drive somewhere that enemy infantry won't be able to reach in time, then build a barracks.
Driving somewhere enemy infantry can reach, then building a ref, is probably a sign of a stupid player.

Now, a good comm who's griefing and trying to cover it up by playing stupid, that can be more difficult. Though, if he's normally a good player/commander, then the noticeable change in behavior could be a tipoff.

 

Better have something like a thing that resets the comm to its starting position after the comm has been voted out by the team after like 60 seconds. That way, the enemy team can still destroy the cv if they are fast enough. Else the cv will return and the game can continue. The timer should be like 10 secs to reset right after start though (to prevent griefing).

 

Where should the CV return to it? Its default position? What if there is a building there already? What if mid-game the commander is voted out and the enemy team has captured the team's starting base? Personally, the best way to deal with a griefer in the early game is a mat reset, in the mid-game, it's too late -- just let it end at that point.

 

I'm usually either commanding the other team or playing.