...also, I've asked this before, but nobody ever gave me a clear answer... what are grenadiers bad at? What's their weakpoint, something that comes up fairly often that they can't handle? Putting aside the things that require an engineer specifically, there isn't much. Engineers are supposed to be slightly all-around classes, since you need them all the time, but they're still fairly weak against tanks unless they have time to set up their turret, especially as tanks get better weapons. Riflemen can't hurt tanks at range, and are very weak at damaging buildings and turrets. Scouts... we already know about. No need to repeat that here. What's a grenadier's weak point, though? Close-range infantry combat? That hardly ever comes up, and when it does they can punch or do all right with a pistol anyway. At other ranges, they can use their mortars and mines against infantry, and they have multiple effective anti-tank and anti-building weapons at a variety of ranges. They also have a wide variety of useful tank-driving skills. Their low ammo is just about their only weak point (which is why, come to think of it, I think it's pretty important that they never have their ammo increased), but I'm not sure that's enough... What are grenadiers bad at? I don't think having one class that excels at everything is good for balanced and interesting infantry combat...
Yeah thats the point, its not about ONE grenadier its about 10 grenadiers that beat the fuck out of everything that come close enough. No turret, no building and no tank would life long enough... I think a group of grenadiers would rule EVERY chokepoint based map without any real effort. I mean maps like canyon, slaughter and so forth. You dont need to HIT with the mortar that its big advantage. So if 3 mortar shells fired at the group of rifleman hit close enough to damage them they will die. AND also important you can't aim if a mortar shell hits you. A team of grenadiers would tear down every forward rax in seconds. I bet that a team of 4 engineers and 16 grenadiers (to have a 20 member team) on canyon would rule over any other combination of classes. and btw who said that a team of grenadiers cant buy tanks ?
Months ago i comm'd a game where at the start, everyone was either gren or rifleman. We lost immediately. A team of grens wouldn't win. Perhaps they might on crossroads, and streets of fire, but on mvalley etc they'd lose by a team of mixed people. On crossroads, we'd simply drop a camera and pick all the grens off easily. On mvalley we'd snipe you with HMG's (yeah, lol). And so on and so forth.
The weak point of the grenadier class is that you have to be pretty good to be properly effective. A lot of good players play as gren because they can do the most good there, whereas most of the players who come to the game are fps players and can easily use the rifleman and the scout effectively (although scouts are still near useless ). And even if they aren't a good shot, they can always be the engineer and the do alot of good there. Myself, I don't usually play as a rifleman or scout unless deliberately responding to a threat. Usually, if no one's really building, you can pick up quite a few easy points as engy and then switch later on to something more deadly, or get buffed up quite quickly. I think that's something that a lot of people miss - if they start out as engy, they're pretty likely to reach rank 2 twice as fast as they would otherwise, and rank 1's a doddle.
Grens are fucked when they have nothing to duck behind. If you leave the element of surprise and different skill levels out of the equation, grens are only good when they can pop out of cover, shoot and take cover again to reload. When they have no cover, they usually lose against any other class because they send fewer projectiles per time in the enemy's direction, be it mortar shells or pistol rounds.
that's the same for every other class apart from scouts (well, sortof). holy shit, i think i just found a use for the scouts! hiding in open plains....interesting....
I think he means that if you put any other class against a grenadier in the open, the other class will either match or equal it. I do think the mortar is too powerful as an anti-infantry weapon, at least it can be used to the same effect as a rifle if the player is good, the weapon does have far too much margin for skill, it's only really balanced if the player using it isn't very good.
Did anyone see that grenadier rush on cyclopeon one round? People started yelling OMG GRENADIER RUSH and there was 5 grens outside our starting base. I quickly switched to scout and killed 2 of them, while an APC went outside and slaughtered the other 3. In that short amount of time, the grenadiers destroyed our barracks and VF. I'd say the best bet for a successful gren rush is at the point where an APC can rush them to the enemy base quickly. They have to be quick though, because the counter of a grenadier rush is a few scouts (and yes I'm serious, the sniper just picks the grens off like nothing).
You see, the problem with this thread is hte fact that the scenario is a team of all grens, fighting a noob team, now it doesn't matter what fucking class they are, vets are going to beat a noob team, you guys fail to take into account the fact that I eat grens for breakfast, and have turrets for seconds, grens don't scare me.
Man with defusal + STD APC + a bit of cover > Grens Engies > scouts > riflemen > grens > engies OMFG paradox!
I still think scouts with hide trying to sabotage the enemy command vehicle is the greatest. Squad setup: Repair engi, defusal gren, ammo upgrade gren, sticky rifleman, hide scout. Epic winz
So the only way you see to beat grens... is to use more grends? I don't see it. Grens kind of beat (or at least are even with) engineers if they're good with their mortar and the engineer doesn't get the drop on them (they can beat turrets with mortars, leaving engies pretty much just with just the SMG in combat -- if you think SMGs beat grens, then you'd have to think everyone beats grens, which isn't really the case.) Likewise, how is a grenadier any more vulnerable to a rifleman than anyone else? I can't really picture, in most of those situations, saying "Hey, the enemy is using a lot of class A, let's counter with different class B!" (The one example you gave -- counter grens with more grens -- probably shows, partially, why grens are the second-most popular class after engineer.) I think that that kind of rock-paper-scissors relationship might be a good thing, mind you, but I don't think it's there at the moment. (And, of course, we don't just have to balance classes against each other -- we have to worry about tanks, walls, buildings, and static defenses, too. And, eventually, aircraft.) And I don't see at all how you think scouts beat riflemen. I mean, sure, scouts can theoretically snipe them right now, but how is a rifleman any more vulnerable to scouts like that than anyone else?
