2.23 strats

Discussion in 'Game Play' started by CobaltBlue, Mar 14, 2009.

  1. CobaltBlue

    CobaltBlue Member

    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think this will be a fun thread where we can all discuss the unilateral decisions each team now has at there disposal.

    Now... I thought long and hard about it, and... I can't think for the life of me what NF would research.:rolleyes:

    NF:
    1. electrical
    2. reactive
    3. 3phase
    4. mechanical
    5. upgraded chassis (M2)
    6. tracking
    7. guided
    8. APC spawning
    9. <team choice>
    I think there will actually be some real debate about what BE does however. Reactive is definitely over-powered now, so getting reactive is important. Although, even plain armor is good enough now for any vehicle to ignore everything else and take out those expensive raxes. I'm thinking rushing heavies will be a winning strategy. Also increasing armor per plate gives the greatest advantage to light armors like*shutters* absorbent.

    BE:
    1. Mechanical
    2. APC spawning
    3. Upgraded Chassis (M2)
    4. Chemistry
    5. Improved Detonation
    6. Explosive Shells
    7. Advanced Chassis
    8. Heavy Chassis
    9. Heat Transfer
    10. Absorbent
    11. Coolant Engine
    Other suggested research paths?
     
  2. Sirex

    Sirex Member

    Messages:
    549
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BE:
    Physic reflective to counter missile, then DU to kill reactive mk2 light tanks, du is good vs reactive? Then range cannon arty spam win.
     
  3. RoboTek

    RoboTek Member

    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I was trying ranged cannon earlier on NF ultra-lights to pretty much no effect, so you can remove that as a choice.

    I actually think it is best right now for BE to go EE too. The armor is amazing, 3-phase is still incredibly good, UML gives a solid damage output above normal cannons, and you can transition right to level 3 turrets, because they are going to be breaking through your lines more often now and defense is far more important.
     
  4. Roflcopter Rego

    Roflcopter Rego Member

    Messages:
    624
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BE can not plan for MKII, they are just not effective. They can still plan for heavies though, which seem to be better than they were against lights. also DU seems to be a bit of a joke, with all armours buffed it does next to no damage. HEMG is still quite effective.
     
  5. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

    Messages:
    6,533
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The best strategy for BE to counter EE super lights:
    physics - reflective armor - fission engine - ranged cannon - upgraded chassis(M2)

    At this point you have M2 afvs with 3 plates of reflective armor on every side with ranged cannon. Certainly not better than the NF lights but good enough to survive and hold ground.

    Depending on the map and the game situation you can either go straight for dual ranged heavies or meds / arties. Whatever chassis you choose next, ranged and reflective will serve you well.
     
  6. Metal Smith

    Metal Smith Member

    Messages:
    4,520
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    give MKII a 2 slot MG >.<
     
  7. ScardyBob

    ScardyBob Member

    Messages:
    3,457
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    0
    NF:
    Reactive
    3phase
    Guided
    MKII's
    Win
     
  8. CobaltBlue

    CobaltBlue Member

    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    M2s are very OP, but they are also expensive.
    I think M2s could make NF choke if they do it too soon. This is definitely a winning strategy for the new Mittoes though. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
  9. yobbo

    yobbo Member

    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    BE

    -physics
    -reflective
    -mech
    -gas turbine
    -upgraded chasis
    -ranged cannon
    -heavies

    you can mix around the order of engine/cannon/chassis. Or go for fission reactor because its cheaper and faster to tech too, it's just that it sucks for heavies. So you have to go for adv coolant as well.

    Just delete mediums from the game while you're at it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2009
  10. ba'al

    ba'al Member

    Messages:
    403
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why gas turbine when you can get fission?
     
  11. CobaltBlue

    CobaltBlue Member

    Messages:
    548
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why get fission when you can just poop in your chassis?
     
  12. communism

    communism poof

    Messages:
    4,094
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You guys even used fission since the new patch?
    It was always a good engine and it got buffed afaik
     
  13. -=SIP=-

    -=SIP=- Member

    Messages:
    2,133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I haven't command BE very often. So just a basic questions:
    Why research Extended Range Cannon cannons? They only have 60 damage instead of 40 damage (standard canon).
    Why not research first High Explosive Cannon?
     
  14. PredatoR[HUN]

    PredatoR[HUN] Member

    Messages:
    1,704
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    because its next to reflective,you dont need to open a new tree.
     
  15. RoboTek

    RoboTek Member

    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Also they carry significantly more total damage with their 40 shots and have a faster projectile (which means even more damage). In theory if you hit every time the thing does more damage than HE.
     
  16. -=SIP=-

    -=SIP=- Member

    Messages:
    2,133
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanx.

    As I read the wiki I'm wondering, why plasma cannon is used so rare.
    By comparison with the other 2 slot canons plasma is not really bad. You have less damage per shot, but you also have only a cycle time of 1.0.

    This damage can be done in 6 seconds:
    Ranged Cannon: 240
    High Explosive Cannon: 225
    Plasma Cannon: 270

    And with plasma you also have to chance to overheat the enemy (I also like the sound and effect :D).

    Ranged Cannon (Physics > Projectile Physics > Extended Range Cannon)
    Cost: 50
    Damage: 60
    Clip Size: 40
    Cycle Time: 1.5
    Weight: 70
    Heat: 14
    Speed: 3300
    Explosion Radius / Force: 300 / 100

    High Explosive Cannon (Chemistry > Improved Detonation Compounds > Explosive Shells)
    Cost: 80
    Damage: 75
    Clip Size: 24
    Cycle Time: 2.0
    Weight: 70
    Heat: 16
    Speed: 3000
    Explosion Radius / Force: 400 / 200

    Plasma Cannon (Physics > Superheated Material Physics > Plasma Cannon Projectile)
    Cost: 50
    Damage: 45
    Clip Size: 30
    Cycle Time: 1.0
    Weight: 70
    Heat: 14
    Speed: 3100
    Explosion Radius / Force: 300 / 100
     
  17. Apogee

    Apogee Member

    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm experimenting with Plasma. Plasma cannons w/ coolant and abs steamrolled NF one game, but it took a while to get to it.

    Tried plasma MG on APCs - got abs/coolant first, which was probably a bad idea, as by the time research was done we were on the brink of being overwhelmed. I figure massing plasma MG APCs will negate the NF LT speed advantage, and let grens pick them apart.
     
  18. pickled_heretic

    pickled_heretic Member

    Messages:
    1,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    SIP, there's an advantage to burst damage with HE and ranged cannons... if you are attacking frequently, and your hits are spread out over all facings, you will kill more slowly than if you are focusing on one plate. It's easier to focus on one plate if you're using a higher damage cannon with a slower rate of fire. Not only that but the splash from HE makes it better at killing turrets, infantry, and in some cases, buildings.

    That said I'm not opposed to trying plasma cannons in a game but I think you need people to work together for it to work. I tested some 1v1 with plasma and it fails miserably unless you're using a heavy tank.
     
  19. Emp_Recruit

    Emp_Recruit Member

    Messages:
    4,244
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    safffffffffffffffffff
     
  20. RoboTek

    RoboTek Member

    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is a poor assessment because it does not take into account a few factors.

    Explosion size is basically close range accuracy. Heat per unit damage is important. Speed based damage is important.

    Lets take a normal speed to damage modifier of .002


    Ranged Cannon
    Damage: 60+.002*3300=67 damage/1.5=134/3=45 damage per second and 9.3 heat per second.
    Explosion Radius / Force: 300 / 100

    High Explosive Cannon (Chemistry > Improved Detonation Compounds > Explosive Shells)
    Damage: 75+.002*3000=81/2=40.5 damage per second and 8 heat per second
    Explosion Radius / Force: 400 / 200

    Plasma Cannon (Physics > Superheated Material Physics > Plasma Cannon Projectile)
    Damage: 45+3100*.002=51.5 damage per second and 14 heat per second
    Explosion Radius / Force: 300 / 100

    The real indicators of damage as the absolute output factor is heat
    Ranged Cannon: 4.83 damage/heat
    HE Cannon: 5.06 damage/heat
    Plasma: 3.6 damage/heat

    Meanwhile ranged cannon has high range for sieging and HE cannon has a good blast radius. If you accommodate for the additional heat, plasma has
    between a 12.87 damage/net heat gained/second in a super-ideal setting and a poor case of about 5 damage/net heat gained/second at 50% accuracy. Meanwhile it is easier for players to mess up using plasma and get in a bad spot, only is good for a single target, and does not do well against infantry, or long distance structures. For newbies using it, it only has a 30 second maxammo lifespan.

    Overall it isn't like plasma is clearly useless, but it isn't great either. If players have poor accuracy it gets worse, and the higher rate of fire means that for each moment you spend aiming the worse you are harming your maximum damage output. In an ideal setting this means plasma is probably the best weapon, but most players are poor so the low accuracy and maximum damage will leave them running out of ammo before the job is done and the high heat per second will make them more likely to overheat and leave themselves vulnerable.

    Summary: Against an enemy tank that you are consistently hitting plasma has the best net damage per second, but against anything else it is likely worse.
     

Share This Page