2.13.4 Released

Discussion in 'News' started by Thexa4, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. MartinPL

    MartinPL Member

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    It is very hard to come with something throwable, lightweight and looking enough different to HE type. I think showing the core of grenade with lighting and not harm color (non-lethal is Blue coding?)
     
  2. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    large swaths of the empires population dont know what seismics do? ????? wow its almost as if we constructed a problem that doesnt exist
     
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  3. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    @MartinPL yeah i too think if its some lightweight thing you can throw and it explodes it says "grenade" automagically. but then, there are things considered nades that are thrown but are non lethal in other games aswell - someone already named flashbangs and smoke nades. but i wonder if it really is a problem. new players will do dumb things no matter what.

    if i think back, i guess i probably also have thrown engi nades at infantrists, but - at least to me - "its not dying" is a quite decent indicator that those work differently.
    i wonder, what does one expect of new players or what one can archieve with such changes? noone will ever grasp the whole of empires on first look. maybe we just should accept that as given?

    which ofc doesnt mean it should not be considered to give decent (visual) hints.

    but my main point still stays, i doubt many read before they try out the game and deem it worthy to do more research on its mechanics. renaming stuff is not going to archieve anything other than alienating long term players (as this thread shows)
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  4. MartinPL

    MartinPL Member

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    Well, i just adding my "3 cents" to the discussion, i know what seismic does and HE what does.
    Destroyer is pointing that New players have problems to understand directly from game visuals that Seismic don't gonna hurt vehicle/infantry. I just trying to make it look enough why new people could mislead themselves with it, using game visual changes that could help, but yeah. We (players experienced) don't need any change to name nor the models.
     
  5. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    I just want to say I don't see how a name change impacts anything. Sure it's a new name, but we are all going to call it seismics anyway, and to a new person it won't be confusing because it will be all they learn.
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    if it has no impact then why change it in the first place? i mean really, it isnt a big issue, its not gamebreaking or anything, i just dont understand it, it simply was unnecessary.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  7. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    I kind of agree? But again, I don't care one way or the other. I don't see this as impacting the game one way or the other. I will still call it a seismic and a noob will learn to call it a seismic eventually, but they will only ever know that it is a seismic resonator so I don't think it'd be confusing for them at all.
     
  8. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    well at least we have something to complain about thats something right? :D
     
  9. MartinPL

    MartinPL Member

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    For me this discussion is weird, because i get the point of Destroyer, but name change gives ZERO change for new players and as you can see, turns veterans into zealots. It is just a name, model is still the same and looks very similar to HE grenade. Issue is in visuals, not names.
     
  10. VulcanStorm

    VulcanStorm Developer Staff Member Moderator

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    @PwnedYoAss Perhaps adding a final research tree? Some form of building/base research... "structural engineering" perhaps?

    This would contain research for upgrading bases, buildings, and would naturally contain seismic weaponry to wreck enemy buildings. I can see a place for a grenade launcher, cannon, and missile launcher... There is some unused double wall hp research lying around somewhere that could fit in that tree, along with infantry research perhaps?

    Also, move composite armour here, leave gas turbine in mechanical.
     
  11. PwnedYoAss

    PwnedYoAss Member

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    HM, our research trees are called, Physics, Chemistry, Biology... which are sciences.. then Mechanical which ends up being a form of engineering, so Structural is a valid name.

    It would work out as long as we could fill the tree with enough shit. Have a section for resonators, a section for upgraded buildings... you know a research for allowing engineers to place an additional turret and camera would be interesting (ontop of the one given). You will have effectively created the turtling research branch.

    Hell, honestly why move anything at all. Let's get an entirely new armor and engine. There's probably a niche somewhere we haven't looked at. Increased movement speed while firing for the engine? Maybe an armor that allows requires you interlace other plates for better effectiveness... you know you have to "structure" your armor.

    I also realize at this point, we'd be literally adding a whole new fucking branch to justify a small name change, which is the appropriate way to do it.
     
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  12. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    No, it's not the appropriate way. It's the EMPIRES way.
     
  13. MartinPL

    MartinPL Member

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    Actually it would be interesting to change vehicle weapon slots for yourself so you could change layout even more freely, like adding 1 extra MG mount and block grenade launcher in APC or give berondi Heavy change 1 cannon to ML and NF Heavy 1 ML to Cannon slot. Unique thing.
    For engine it would be more interesting to have even more stronger cooling engine so more weapon settings could work even better. [advanced cooling engine is still poop for dual cannon setting :( ]
     
  14. PwnedYoAss

    PwnedYoAss Member

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    Huh. 3-Slot weapons on Medium Tanks? NUKE MEDIUMS? Christ, you'd have to make it cost a lot though. The armor would have to be trash, no way of getting around that, and I'm not sure if that's conducive to better gameplay as much as weird, cheese strategies involving nuke mediums.

    For the engine, not sure if that's a good idea; the current cooling for the engines is there to prevent serious amounts of spam which is possible in Empires due to ammo boxes and armories. If this theoretical engine cooled more it'd have to, well have to be really weak somewhere else. Like, slower than standard engine or something.
     
  15. MartinPL

    MartinPL Member

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    Nukes are boring and overrated, why they even there, arty isn't enough against turtle? oh well, nobody know they exist (except Mr. X, still best arty support provider). Mostly i mean ""Super"" weapon set where you can actually try turn normal tank to more AT role and it can be more slow, static setup. AT tank idea is still far from even starting in testing so this could be temporary way against tank flood. Grenadiers? they are always somewhere else when you need them :(
     
  16. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    How are you so frikking blind, I dont even get. All your arguments are basicly undisputable since its either subjective or unimportant. But all of your arguments also indicate how important you feel about your name change. Its a no win situation for people who dislike the change. You're basicly telling us to shove it up our ass.

    1. every argument actually valid can be made invalid by telling us how unimportant the word change is
    2. every argument about how bad the word change itself is can be made invalid by saying its subjective

    Everything just loops around to you wanting to keep the name change no matter what is said or done.

    Worst. Dev. Ever.
     
  17. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I went through the entire thread at least three times again. Every argument raised was answered with logic. I did acknowledge the change is small and far from impactful. It was not the core of my answers, it was in response to people's claims of it not mattering, hence not needing a change.

    I said that personal tastes are not up for debate. This is true but not a serious argument. It was never used as such. Go read the post you quoted again.

    I am not shifting this discussion to be about my desires. I already stated that if you can raise a convincing argument, I will stop supporting the change.

    Stop slandering my person. Focus on the problem of the name change instead.
     
  18. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    Is this still about the seismic resonator?

    ACTIVATE ZEE BANHAMMER DEVICE.

    No matter their name, I will always throw seismic grenades at people in district.
     
  19. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I actually expect people to adapt the name "seismic resonator grenades".
     
  20. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Im slandering your person cause every arguments stems from you as a person, they arent logical, they just sound logical to you because you are so deeply involved and unwilling to change.

    And as I said there is litterally no convincing argument to be made with your stance being unmovable.

    At this point its almost trying to convince someone god doesnt exist and you're telling me to proof god doesnt exist. Shit dont fly.
     

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