Defusal nerf: gives 1/8th chance of detonation

I originally didn't like this idea, because I thought it would trash the defusel skill, but I have changed my mind.

Defusal is currently OP. Everyone likes it, and knows it is a requirement, but it's OP and I guess maybe it should have a nerf to make it on the same order as the rest of the skills.

Especially since 9mine is gone *bows head for a moment of silence*.

 

FUCK YES YOU ARE THE MOST OBVIOUS IDEA EVER

there IS a reason nobody defuses mines with the skill, instead preferring the good ol suicide

 

I defuse all-the-time. It seems like it takes for evar because there is no progress meter. --But, you get 1 point for ever 2 mines defused.

If you find mines that aren't in the middle of a gun fight, grab yourself a few quick and easy points!!!

 

it does take forever, even with a progress bar

it takes like, 5 seconds to defuse one mine

its way more efficent to use your warm body to defuse them, and get an engineer to revive you

 

First off, wow.

And I remember talking to pix a while back who suggested having the "Improved Detonators" tree make it so mines would always blow up
Always liked the idea ;p And it seems now grens need a buff anyways

 

wait, I typed that

oh god what was I thinking

 

its okay, im a fucking drunk half the shit I post I don't even remember

 

but I wasn't even drunk or high

i has no excuse

 

Only fix defusal really needs is that it shouldn't work on vehicles. And maybe like in that other thread, it should not be possible to stack mines.

Then mines would finally work like mines.

 

what's wrong with having a super explosive mine

also, if this was "realistic", tanks would die to 1 mine, MAYBE two

 

This chance is too low. I don't think making you totally immune to a weapon 7/8ths of the time is that much better than making you immune to it always.

Defusal should not magically protect you from mines, period. You should always set off mines. Defusal should, however, let you disarm mines in a wide area -- make it so mines get chain-disarmed, so when you disarm one mine, any mines that it would have set off also get disarmed, which disarms any remaining mines those would have set off, etc.

With that change it wouldn't be a big deal.

Oh, also, give defusal to the scout instead of the grenadier. And make concussion grenades temporarily disable any mines in the area (for 10 seconds); again, this effect should automatically chain to any mines that the disabled mines would have set off.

 

If defusal didn't protect vehicles from mines, people would hide in their vehicle factories and never come out. I don't want to nerf vehicles because people are unfamiliar with playing without the skill and I do not like absolutes.

 

Good.

Players would send scouts ahead to check for and disarm mines (maybe make Defusal highlight mines, too? Make them glow or turn them bright red or something, in the vision of anyone with defusal?)

People would use an infantry rush to clear out mines, then send in the tanks. That... sounds wonderful. Maybe you don't want to nerf vehicles, but making them a bit more dependent on infantry to scout for (and set off!) mines sounds like a good thing to me.

 

No, not good. It weakens both offense and defense. It's much like placing level 3 turrets right outside of somebody's base. As much as I would like to emphasize the use of infantry with tanks, I don't want to huddle in a corner until someone with defusal gets rid of the mines. It isn't as much teamwork as it is extreme dependency. Typically, absolutes are never good in a game.

Generally, I try to keep my ideas simple and close to the current working system. As much as I want to tear Empires down and put it back together (see Remove everything), with the devs' current means of fixing Empires, small, familiar modifications are best effective.

 

cool idea Ounin, it's great just the way you've said it

the putting 3 or 4 mines in one place would give you a higher chance of one going off and setting them all off, so, I dont know the math of it but, that sounds like a good idea. kinda like more mines = higher stakes, making it a gamble, this sounds awesome, and a good way to return some effectiveness to grens and also refresh the whole tank vs infantry discussion/balance.

Metal - the way you have it, a player would soon learn that if they hit the first one, say in a field of 8, then np, keep going. it would just be intuitive after a while. I think you should have to sweat it out till you are past all the mines.

agreed

 

Mines sort of create a fun anxiety in the game when there's chance involved. It makes passing a minefield an achievement too.

 

Yeah Defusal right now is bullshit. You should not be able to drive over mines and always be completely safe. It should be rebalanced and given to scouts, so that they need to clear out mines before vehicles can advance.

I can assure you that if IRL tanks would need 4 mines to be destroyed real armies would stack four mines in one spot.

 

Perhaps defusal should only work at low speeds/not running too. Sorry if thats already been suggested.

 

exactly, it's too much of a no brainer currently because its an absolute, absolutes are bad

 

Computer generated random numbers aren't quite statistical as I understand them, they are 'more random' than actual random numbers.

In roulette for example you have just as much chance to land on number 24 every round, even if you landed on it last round, in a computer simulation of roulette you would probably have a lower chance. Computer generated random numbers are designed to be different every time, actual random numbers are not.

The only way to get a truly random number in a computer is to do something like measure the time between two alpha particles being emitted from a radioactive source, something actually random and then feed that into the computer. You can do it from the clock but I think that has problems when you make many checks in a short space of time.

So, the chance of tripping an eight mine is probably higher than you would predict statistically, because the game will ensure a detonation roll is made at least one in eight times.

Also I don't like the random chance idea, I suggested before that defusal should simply add a time delay to mines based on the weight of your vehicle, so heavily armed and armored tanks will not be able to drive over mines, while lightly armed and armored tanks will be able to ignore minefields. Middleweight tanks can drive over them but will deplete their back plates from the splash damage, the lighter the tank the less damage taken because they will put more distance between them and the mines. I still think that's a better idea. A similar but less complex idea is that there is a weight limit to detonate mines, vehicles under the limit won't detonate them, vehicles over the limit will, defusal raises the limit, however this is inconsistent with infantry being able to detonate mines.

Alternatively make defusal reduce all damage from mines to tanks by half, that's simple and allows tanks to be resistant to mines but not in large numbers, it is more forgiving than non-defusal, but doesn't make you invincible. The problem with random chance is that it's annoying, you can't anticipate it, you could just be unlucky and trip the wrong mine and get flipped or crippled when you least need it, that's not good gameplay, that's punishing players for having bad luck.