Why new players love the sniper rifle! THE TRUTH D:

Ok empires is a game in which newbies have no
chance against long time players. Like in
dystopia or the hidden. With my experience in those
games and empires I think I know the main reason why
people want the scout rifle not to be removed.

In dystopia after some very frustraiting first time games
I started to play as rocket heavy. Its a newbie
friendly weapon. Means you can even get one or
two kills against a horde of veterans. Why? cause it is
cheap as hell to get a kill with it.

In empires, new players have no chance against skilled
players that kill you in under a second with their assault
rifle or mortar. Against veterans its fair cause they know
how to avoid situation in which they would get easily raped.
Like the "never stand still if you fight a grenadier" rule.

The scout rifle is the newbie weapon in empires. You can
get some kills with it ( and nearly no deaths cause u dont
move into dangerous areas ) even if you totaly
suck in every other aspect of the game.

Those people feel cheated if the rifle is removed cause it is
the only chance for them to get some positive emotions from
playing the game. Their mindset doesnt seem to allow them
to adapt a different style how to play a fps game and they think
that games like css or insurgency are the only way how a fps
can work. So they try to force the game into a way that suits
their playstyle, see posts like ( uh.. a a-rifle shouldnt be able
to kill a sniper 500 meters away...)

Empires is not a realistic game, its arcade with some game rules
from pseudo realistic games like counter strike (less acuraccy if
you move and stuff like that) Its imo closer to quake 3 and unreal.
I mean everyone that playes that mod for longer than
3 month can agree that you are able to spot the vets only by
the way how they move across the battlefield in empires.

Maybee, a way to show new players how the mod wants to be played
is redoing the art style into a more arcade and aggressive direction
so people know from only looking on screenshots what they have to
expect from the game.

Long post, thx for reading and now discuss

 

1) We have no art team.
2) You're still spreading attempts to keep the scout rifle
3) The scout rifle is the default class and default weapon, when someone sees a box pop up, they're gunna hit accept because they wanna get into the fight.

 

I use to only use the rocket class in that game too and me and you are both very skilled at this game.. Its not like they cant get good at rifles or something.

 

1 yes i know
2 ???????????????????
3 If that would be the reason people would not
stay as scout after their first games

 

Because people are lazy and once they find a method that lets them spawn they're content to repeat what they did ad infinitum.

 

Pfft, when i was a new player (last month), i didn't use the sniper rifle a lot, only once in a while when i was bored and felt like mucking around, and the reason for this is: I can't friggin snipe in any game, i can use a rifle and smg fine, but i just can't snipe.
I love rockets and explosives though.

And unlike most i read the entire manual before playing.
:cute:

 

Have you actually used the sniper rifle? You can't hit anything with it most of the time until you've used it about a bazillion times. If any hint of lag appears, then you will most likely miss. Some hitboxes are so bad that you could unload a clip without dealing any damage. Point is, the sniper rifle is not a newb-friendly weapon.

 

Aka why we hate when the newbs use it .

 

Aww thanks. ove:

 

Not to mention BE's hitboxes are CS sized and NFs are more like DoD [Tiny]

 

I experience it as Mayama does it.
But i don't want empires to become more arcade and aggressive because of it. No more scout rifle = no more reason to stay behind after all.

About a week ago i was in duststorm, and someone called "I'm a radar" was scout with scout rifle. We were in the middle, I on top of the hills and he below at the edge of the middle area. I couldn't go into the middle because of one turret and i was low on health. The turret was like 20m away from the scout. When i asked if he wanted to sabotage the turret, he said "No, i want to snipe, why would i do that?".

Also excuses like "We kill many people with the sniper" do not work for me. In a game like empires, were you sometimes have to walk 100m before you see someone, 1 shot kills from some bush on the other side of the map are the worst of all. They still have bad scores though. So scout rifles are pretty much annoying to both teams.

 

They drive me mad when I get sniped, they drive me mad when I use them, they drive me mad when they're on my team.

 

I dont want the game more arcade or aggressive, I mean the game doesnt
present itself right through the art style. Its more arcade and aggressive than
the art style looks like

 

You make no sense its just the usuall troll post from you and the reason
why no one takes you serious

Im not a very good fps player but I never ever had a problem with scouts
trying to sniper me in empires...

If you need iron sights in empires you srsly not very good at fps...

 

no flames about the topic anymore? sad i expected more..

 

I'm English and i only just understood what you were trying to say. So please do not start assuming it's the other people who have the problem.

Back to the topic: I think Mayama is correct; one reason people go for the sniper rifle is that they can kill otherwise more skillful players without getting into danger themselves. So if we remove the rifle or make it harder to come across (putting it as the non default gun in the game) this could mean that people when they first encounter the game (if they do not read the manual) could be put off. However we have to ask ourselves whether we want the type of people who give up so easily playing Empires.

In the end the sniper is quite ineffective, on large maps they are a nuisance but do not really stop anything critical happening, as there is usually a spawn nearby. Plus scouts often do not get a head shot so you are warned that there is a scout and either get health or find the scout.

On smaller maps either scouts just get killed in CQC or there is a revive for you nearby.

On escort I personally ( as i expect most regular players) know all the sniping points and have figured out the exact point you have to aim with the mortars for a one shot kill.

 

That is epic lulz, silk, and deserves to go in the emp_recruit quotes thread. Or whatever the heck that thread is titled.

ANYWAY.

Mayama may be the first player to actually make a halfway decent argument to keep the scout rifle in empires. Yes, it's worthless in combat. Yes, the scout sucks. Yes, it's a detriment to the team. BUT a newbie playing Empires will actually do better with the scout rifle then with nothing at all/anything else, AND a newbie will not hate empires b/c the sniper rifle makes him feel not useless. Granted, he still IS fucking useless, but here's hoping that he sticks around long enough to realize this---and he very well may learn how useless the scout is, if he actually sticks around and keeps playing.

Now, I don't know if I agree with this argument: an engineer can do just as much with a little bit of cover from the squad. I know I've played with BRAND NEW never installed empires first time omg newb players before. I told them to go engineer, and I gave them cover while they helped me assault enemy bases. Seismic spam, building turrets, keeping the apc alive and picking off infantry with it--all these activities are just as safe for the infantry unit, just (relatively) just as rewarding, and certainly FAR more helpful for the team. I've helped newbies take down enemy bases with seismics and I know for a fact that there are posts in this forum of newbies saying how they may not know wtf they're doing but they know they helped the team by using seismics. So I disagree with him, overall.

But mayama does raise an interesting point... if the sniper rifle serves to ease newbies into the game (I don't think it does) then it actually DOES have SOME purpose other then being a big ol' pile of shit, and as long as it serves a purpose, I'm happy.

However--I think it would be just as easy to find some other newbie friendly ways to play the game that actually aid the team, too, and I'm sure there's tons of suggestions out there that are just as good.

 

If the rebalence of weapons works out. the Scout will become a better ambush unit(hide+Shotgun= Fatal surprise). The smg's will become slightly less lethal resulting in engineers moving about more timidly and staying In bases.The riflemen will be your ultimate anti infantry from mid to long range. And grenadier will blow crap up.

The removal of the sniper helps define roles. You will see.

It's not the removal of a sniper. It's the releasing of the scout.

 

- I think new players get fooled by the scout rifle. They think they will enjoy themselves, and they end up sitting on a rock alone shooting bunnies at a distance thinking the team will be so proud of them for helping them out.

- New players using a scout rifle get bitched at, and usually for good reasons. We lose new players for this as well.

- The engineer is the standard class, and imo best fitted for new players. more than that, engineers are appreciated. New players might enjoy feeling appreciated.

- Scouts with scout rifles are often annoying to both teams. Removing something that annoys so many people doesn't have to be bad.

 

If the scout rifle is seen as a way to "ease" players into the game it is even more reason for its removal. Sniping teaches you nothing useful about the game that is transferrable, if you pick ANY other class you can learn the game as you play, even if you get owned. For example, spamming seismic nades to try and take down a rax is transferrable because

a) You learn how important it is to destroy enemy barracks
b) You learn how important it is to keep your ownbarracks alive when it is under attack, and if it is shaking about with explosions it is probably because it is being seismic spammed.

As I have said before the scout rifle is counter-productive to teamplay as it encourages lonewolfing. This teaches you absolutely nothing about the game or how to do well at the game, it only teaches you (eventually) that spening all game camping and sniping is useless and you should change class if you want to actually help your team win.

Chris0132` made a point (in the suggestion for scouts resources hack thread) which I think clarifies the position of people who oppose the removal of the scout rifle :

I say you can not have it both ways. You have to either direct players to work as a team and make it clear that this is the only way to win, or you have a game that is geared for individual skill that descends into a chaotic disorganised deathmatch with nothing but music spam on the voicecomms. Personally I prefer the former, I like Empires because out of any game I have played it gives the most satisfying experience of teamplay, there is no greater victory than one achieved through superior teamwork and realised strategy.

If the idea of a "useful lonewolf" is allowed to continue and develop, then at the end of the game when the winner is announced, it is the team that plays well together and has the best strategy and teamwork that loses, and feels cheated, and decides that next time they play they will go lonewolf and use greater individual skill insead of teamwork to win. This goes directly against everything that Empires is about.

For me the perfect game of Empires is one in which nobody on either team lonewolfs, both teams fight together, when you die it is shoulder to shoulder with your squad mates, when you kill it is always for your commander and never for the scoreboard.

And then we come back to the scout rifle. The weapon that screams to noobs - pick me, go and hide somewhere and get some easy kills. You can learn how to use me, become a great sniper and top the scoreboard, winning the game for your team and winning the fear and respect of your enemy.

But this couldn't be further from the truth. It is obvious from reading posts in defense of the sniper rifle the mentality of those who use it and it is obvious that they do not want the same Empires that I do. These people are easy to dismiss, it is too easy to say - play insrgency, play CSS if you want to snipe and be the most skilled and loneliest sniper in the world. But I would rather say - pick a different class. Get in my APC, or go buy a tank and follow me, you can learn that playing as a team is more rewarding and the victory more satisfying.

If you don't like teamwork, that is your choice but don't try and tell me you are helping out by ignoring requests for cooperation and sitting on a hill by yourself looking down your scope. I think there is still a place for people who don't want to play with their team - but now with the removal of the scout rifle, the only place to lonewolf will be on the front line ahead of your team mates.