Nobody likes the idea of cheaters cheating, but the people who've been the most outspoken about it are severely overestimating the amount of Empires players that actually have the means, the time, and the willpower to go in and modify their game content to attain a personal advantage and regularly play with such modifications active. Period. In an ideal world, I might desire to have everyone see and play the exact same Empires. This isn't an ideal world, and sv_pure isn't an ideal solution. Even without a modified game, you can't really make a dark map and expect it to work out, because players adjust their gamma settings or the brightness of their monitor. As ScardyBob already mentioned, veteran players know the ins and outs of shortening various tasks such as binding squad artillery & squad revive with emp_menu_quickcmd. As pickled_heretic mentioned in another thread, players with higher end computers do and always will have a distinct advantage over other players (which could be construed as "unfair" by some). As Mayama pointed out in yet another thread, players with lower network latency do and always will have a distinct advantage over other players (which could be construed as "unfair" by some). A discussion of fairness isn't terribly useful because at its core is a plethora of individuals with different ideologies about what is indeed fair - I don't think any kind of consensus can be reached. There are numerous things that a player can do to provide his or her self with an advantage over other players, some of which are considered to be cheating by few, others which are considered to be cheating by many. Where does it end? How far do we go? I think it's more trouble than it's worth, especially since the people who've been most outspoken against cheating have neglected to offer us some solid evidence or statistics on how many players in this relatively small Empires community are actively cheating with modified game content. As it stands, even the different servers modify things - VIPER runs a damage notification plugin, Nachos runs a vehicle hijack plugin. The different servers sometimes run different scripts, run different map cycles, etc. It's the individual servers' prerogative to serve what they wish, and it will be the those servers' prerogative to decide what kinds (if any) of content modification are acceptable. Nobody is there to hold servers to any standard of consistency, so I am torn on enforcing purity for clients. In part, it's a rationale I share for not forcing things like cl_detaildist for the detail sprites in my Empires maps, because some people just can't handle the max value and it's ludicrous to force them to a high detail distance by default if it may negatively affect their performance. This is a mod after all and people should be encouraged to modify the content and showcase their modifications. But going on a witch hunt to prevent or discourage them from doing so will prove to be ineffective and counterproductive. The only thing we can try to reach consensus on is what content should make its way into the game. There have been numerous posts already, and there will be countless more as this thread's page count grows, each spouting a different definition or list of what they personally hold to be "fair."
generally, any effect of modification is negligible because games occur at a greater scale than counterstrike
Very little. Arguably being born with naturally good reflexes and motion detection skills is unfair as it helps you aim, arguably playing the game for a long time is unfair because you have more experience with it. Rather than fairness I would go with disruption, if something prevents a number of other players from enjoying the game, it should be prohibited, this can include things that make you instakill anyone who comes near you, or things that annoy a lot of people, or things which make the server unstable. Fairness is rather arbitrary, it is simply a means to making the game enjoyable, but ultimately enjoyment is what matters, remove things if and when they make them game unenjoyable.
I think latency is the great divider. Between g4tc (ping 40) and viper (ping 180) are worlds for me. Dying when you are already behind cover, shots dont register and the dreaded weaponswitch doesnt register and switches back to the old weapon problem really really make it frustraiting to play.
ITT butthurt whores who want an excuse for sucking. If you have such an issue, buy a server, enforce sv_pure and see how populated it gets.
Oh god, don't even talk to me about lag... And fucked up monitors that make everything purple... And a lack of a cooling fan...
Brothas ain't got shit against my superb internet. (Note the ping) Ontopic: I don't notice much difference on main and viper. Other than vehicle lag (slow steering etc.) and bad hit detection. *EDIT* HORRIBLE RUBBERBANDING!
Sorry but that's bullshit. Just because the jeep would drive better in 3rd person view, doesn't make it right for you to change it. And that's pretty much what you're saying.
So then what has to happen in order for someone to be right in modifying game content? If not to improve the content and the playability of the game, then what? Frankly, I think that there should be two models - what the first person player sees, and what the third person players see. In first person, you have a view without rollbars, in the third person you see a model with rollbars. As far as I recall, those things weren't just posted on the forums for people to use, they were more/less an advocacy of change in the Jeep models. Now that the models are there and readily available, if a developer can be convinced to implement them along side of rollbar jeeps, and do so without issue, then why not? Do you determine what game modifications are right, and do you determine who does or doesn't have the right to perform them? Did Empty and Chris0132 not have the right to release various custom smoke/fire particle effects & infantry/APC weapon tracers during 2.12 - 2.23? Did none of the people (including myself, ScardyBob, Keef, Trickster, Metal Smith, et. al.) who modified official maps not have the right to do so?
My point is that certain elements don't make sense, like the jeep models, and they got to the point where someone in the community modified the content to make the jeep less of a pain in the ass to drive. I made several edits to district to test various gameplay fixes that I thought might be good, using a vmf I got from another mapper. I didn't have the express consent from the devs, but I was also never asked to stop making the modifications or to remove the content from the forums. Much of the artistic side of empires has gotten to the point where if a community member doesn't step up and do something about it, it will never be changed. This is not because the devs think that things are great the way they are, but because up until now, we have not had devs actively working on things. It has been a very long time since we had a dev who had the time to make the major modifications to the official maps and to the particle effects. We also haven't had a modeler since DonMegel left. anyhow.
Look, I support server owners right to customise the server, but I don't really thing each individual player on that server should has his own schtick. Unlike some people I don't believe cheating is that widespread (and I don't really care because improving 1 person's skill artificially doesn't seem to matter too much in empires), but when you have people playing with jeeps with rollbars and heavy load particles and a whole range of things, and then someone who's got the official vanilla...that doesn't really seem right to me. To be honest, you have the same argument with the scout rifle - it's current incarnation sucks, so why not just fix it? I will use revised rollbarless jeeps, barbed-wireless walls and fixed particles when they're official, not before. I'm not very concerned about this at all, the line is fine, I just like to make it clear where I think it is. If you eat a couple of your sister's chocolates, it's really not that bad...but they're still not yours to eat. And in the scheme of things, many of these changes effect comfort level so that the game can be played, and are not installed to give you an edge, and intent is key. But it fairly annoys me when people try and pretend that they're lah-de-dah so justified, blah blah. Just say what it is, which is a small thing that won't matter jack and you do this to make you want to play the game more. A small thing is still a small thing, not NOTHING, don't pretend that, and i'll champion your use of it.
Considering it doesn't actually make him much better I assume he does it just so that he doesn't have to pay attention when he plays.
i agree that players should se the sam things ,but if devs do not bother to fix "broken" models (nf wall, jeeps), i will use the fixed models. I take no joy in driving in a jeep when his parts cover half of the screen
If you had a choice between rollbarless jeeps and omgicantseeshit jeeps for official models what would be your choice?
Rollbarless. Like I said, if it's official i'd use them...although the screenshot makes them look pretty rubbish, and I kinda like the rollbars sometimes. This is bearing in mind that I don't use a jeep twice every match like most of you. The thing I have actually used (though I don't have it installed currently - too lazy) is Nessie's GUI. That's usually to make it easier to command, because I don't really like the black theme - makes it too dark on my screen.
The Jekotian Army Safety Standards prohibit tampering with rollbars of military vehicles. Offenders will be put into the brig. I should add that to the load screen tips.
