Weapon balancing: How are we going to do it?

This thread has been created to discuss the TECHNIQUES that will be used to balance the weaponry. After that, we will discuss what weaponry should be changed. Two different things, don't mix them up so you don't clog up this thread :p

Oh, and please state your reasons for your choice(s).

 

Recoil in the sense of your screen jumping about after a couple of shots. Reason: Can't just hold the mouse button and recoil plus decreaing accuracy per shot will make run and gun less effective.

Iron sights view shouldn't have recoil to make them more worthwhile.

 

Iron sights changed a lot about ARs and scout rifle was good in 1.07. We should play more before changing anything.

 

Iron sights are pretty much useless as the weapons are already very accurate without it. I think the best way to fix this is a mixture of things, the r&d settings were balanced with 1.07 in mind, 1.08 allows you to make headshots, and has accurate hitboxes etc, so the weapon balance should be different. I think all weaopns should be toned down equally a slight bit, accuracy and damage wise, for a starter.

 

I agree with dizzy.

But there is one thing that i think that really needs changing.
Quoting ^Dee^ :

 

I can't use BE Iron sights because I SUCK.

what i meant to say, was that because of the flash coming out of the end of the gun, and the narrow veiw point, once you start firing you quickly loose sight of your target. It's quite cool and interesting.

except, that when you're against another player who can just gun you down very quickly it gets irritating very quickly.


am I just over reacting?

 

I take it you never played BF2 or any other game with iron sights. The BE AR iron sights take up as much screen space as all those other games. If you spray while in iron sights, you're going to lose sight of the target. Iron sights is for shooting off bursts. You shoot off a couple rounds and should still see the target in your sights. If not, you point down a little to rescan the area.

 

Rate of fire decrease with a recoil increase would cancel out no?

I was about to say decreasing RoF wasn't really useful, but maybe then it would give the HMG comparative usefulness? Maybe lessening all three would be useful.

Edit: And it's not necessarily about the BE sights being a pain relative to other games, they're a pain relative to the NFAR. The NFAR has such a wide open view it's easier to see targets and hit them. I've played games that have iron sights, and I always choose weapons that give me a better view when in iron sights.

 

damage and RoF together get something like DPS.
RoF and clip size determin how long you can 'spray & pray'.
Accuracy determines a cone in which the bullets will flay.
Recoil determins how hard it is to keep the gun pointed towards the enemy. (where it can either modify the position of the barrel only for the time shoting or acctualy change the direction where the player is pointing).
Damage falloff at range is a way to limit the range of the weapon.

Recoil is something advanced players often manage to compensate (since predictable), accuracy hits all players somehow equal (since sandom distributed) (if they manage to compensate for a moving enemy).

A larger RoF makes it easier to score at least some hits on a moving target but isn't as effektive when it comes to constantly poking the enemy.

That said makes it imho obvious that only a balance of all factors will feel good.

Unfortunatly I don't have that much experiance with the current rifles in game, mainly because my PC sits at the lower end and with 10-20 fps having a firefight often ends in a respawn for me :/ So besides what I have said abouve there is not that much I can contribute.

 

I've played the BF 2 demo, and the ironsights are like Empires, i use them all the time because they are more accurate.

 

NF ironsights obstruct less view then the BE counterparts; that gives an advantage...

Accuracy reduction: When you crouch the accuracy is through the roof and remains that way, I think it should be more CS like (God forgive me) where burst shots are encouraged a little bit more; even if it is not in iron sight mode...

 

I personaly absolutly hate the BF2 way of doing it, beeing a old NS/hl player
IMHO, adding evil recoil to every gun forcing you to crouch to hit somone standing more then 10m away from you really do suck alot, so try keeping that to a minimum
moving while shooting should also be possible, since it crates a more fluid gameplay

 

I think the BEAR's ironsights should obstruct the view, but not to the degree it is currently. Scout rifle is too weak with range dampening. (much better than 1 hit kills)

 

I agree with the ironsights to remain the way they are, but the accuraccy without ironsights as stated before is bloody 1.01 MG deathray's. I killed 7 people while on top of a roof in under 2 minutes without ironsights from extreme range. No way I could've done it with crosshairs. Also, the recoil hurts ironsights further, where crosshairs don't seem to suffer at all from it.

 

yeah, agreed.

take in mind:- if you are firing without ironsight from crouch, that means that you're firing from the hip, which really isn't going to be very accurate.

I say: reduce accuracy of non-ironsights
reduce recoil from iron sights.

 

Needs to be a bigger penalty on movement. Game is too run and gun to the point where someone with a pistol can beat a crouched engineer, simply from strafing side to side.

 

Except in ironsights.

When you're crouched and ironsighted it doesn't even seem like you're moving.

 

I agree with Dee, I love playing 1.08 but its very run-and-gun, needs to be slowed down a bit. Please oh please lets kill the range dampener. If you dont wants pistols to kill at range, make them less accuret.

We need to remember that these weapoins were ballenced to be good without iron sites and so with them the entire thing is messed up. I think that adding in some recoil to normal weapons should even things out. the NF SMG 1 should have only a little bit while the SMG 3 should climb like mad. The NF Heavy should pop way up like the garand in DoD (which would make iron sites almost a neccesity). Make the LMGs have almost no recoil, you have to be crouched to use them so the sumption is that you are resting them on somthing.

The scout rifles should be fine if you take away the range dampener and put it at 50 dmg a shot or so.

 

Aren't rifles supposed to be engineered so that they press back into your shoulder for recoil, instead of upwards, by using a completely straight stock?

 

I don't understand the argument that iron sights screwed everything up. Things aren't run and gun when you're in iron sights because your movement speed is reduced. If you're running and gunning without iron sights, that's how the 1.07 r&d settings were defined. Why wasn't the issue brought up then?