Now, i'm positive this has mentioned before, but i think that turrets are just too strong. The last i played was ruined because the team rushed past our defenses and built a huge turret farm. The worst thing about turret farming is that it is one of the most effective strategies. To me, this is just lame and is no fun at all. To make things worse, lvl 3 ml turrets are near impossible to hit with tanks unless you are either using long-range cannon or artillery. What i see happening a lot now is commanders rushing to get turrets upgrades before even upgrading tanks. In my opinion, tanks should be more important than turrets. Turrets should not be used offensively, thats the job of tanks. I think that turret health should be cut in half. I also think that lvl two turrets should have the same range as lvl one, but with more damage, and that level three turrets should just increase the range to about where lvl two turrets are now. Also, the turret "footprint" should be make larger with each upgrade so they're harder to farm.
That sounds like a pretty good idea. The biggest problem IMO with turrets is their extreme range. They shouldn't be so far away and be able to attack to the point where you have to use a pair of binocs (if you have them) to see them. If anything, keep the damage, but limit the range. Then they would be more defensive (we all know the damage on level 1 mgs are already useless, so we shouldn't try and limit the damage that much)
I think the turrets are fine the way they are. Leave the damage and the range at the levels they are. It sounds to me that you guys dont know how to kill a turret so I suggest going into an empty server plant some and switch teams and practice defeating the turrets. Its not as hard as you make it sound.
Have you even tried destroying a LVL3 MG turret that's standing in the wide open (emp_duststorm)? It's impossible. They snipe you from such incredible range, you could only get there with two engineers buildings walls and healing each other.
ROOFLES! I'm trying to be really nice, and NOT offend anyone. I'll probably fail though. Turrets are a deterrent to light tanks and some infantry. Only light tanks. For some of the newer, more tender folk, I'd say it might be a deterrence to medium and for the newest of the new, no vehicle is safe from turrets. But in all honesty, a turret should not give you trouble in a medium. Even if it's level 3 and you have to drive 300m just to get into range. Look, most people set their turrets up to make it difficult for an engineer to sneak up and kill them, or for the engineer to sprint up and deconstruct them or in best case scenario, for the Grenadier to mortar them. So yes, it's understandable that a turret is slightly difficult to overcome when you're on foot. So, when you complain to the doctor it hurts when you move your arm, Doctor says don't move your arm like that. Turrets become a problem, you pull up with artillery, nukes, and/or HE Cannons (or, my personal favorite, 3 phase Medium with reflec and 2 standard cannons). Really, I love it when the enemy commander turret farms. Because they spent at least three minutes and countless resources on upgraded turrets. Leaving their armor thin, their engines hot, and weapons weak. It's a check and balance. One person builds turrets. Good for infantry and light tanks. So in response, the enemy builds better tanks and crushes the turrets. You just might not know how to effectively eliminate turrets. It doesn't take just arty and long range cannons. Hardly. It takes good armor, a decent engine, and some cannons. Or nukes.
but you do want to be able to rely on the turrets to defend a position, not meerly exist as an irritance. that means that if you place a missile turret, you expect it to kill vehicles, not get slaughtered.
I understand that one should be able to destroy one ml turret even if its lvl 3, but if it has 3 buddies backing it up, things get hairier. Remember, this topic is about turret farming. And, it is possible to kill lvl 3 ml turrets in tanks, but it wastes tons of ammo and takes forever.
I say either put a straight limit on the distance from friendly buildings they can be built, and the number of turrets each friendly building gets as I've said before or... Limit the number of turrets that can be built in a single area. Say, 3, for an arbitrary number. Suppose the comm places a turret, wherever he wants on the map (limited of course by existing build limits). The comm can then place a maximum of 2 other turrets within that turrets firing range (or some other range, within the firing range seems to make the most sense though). If any turret has than 2 other turrets within its firing range, no other turret can be built near it.
Oooo, i like the idea of limiting turrets' build range by their firing range. I think something like this would be a great way to compromise.
Natrual Selection's Turret Factory might be a good answer to this, but only limit it to Comm Placed Turrets. But I do think their range should be decreased. And if you think it's easy to take down turrets, try being surrounded by lvl3s that half your health the moment you walk out of your Barraks and hit your tank the moment it leaves the VF.
I kinda skimmed all of the posts, and I think I saw something like "can only be built withing a certain radius of major buildings." I think that would be a good fix, though there might be some issues, but I can't think of any at the moment. This way they would be used for the defense of the building(s) they are near.
The one alpha tester who was a big proponent for turret farming hasn't even played Empires ever since it was publically released. He's probably the biggest source of all the turret farming.
As an advanced Grenadier I have no problem taking out any turrets, you guys are all doing it wrong, I have perfect mortal and rocket launcher accuracy.
if you let them build a giant turret farm, then its your fault...again, its not hard to kill them. just because it takes a while doesnt mean they are hard to kill. and if they do get lvl 3 turrets than that means your tank research is that much farther ahead and will take care of those turrets. i have never played a game were turret farming has made a big impact or won the game.
By the way, my ideas refer solely to the commander placed turrets. Engi turrets are fine. And the more I think about it, the more I prefer my second idea over my first.
As an advanced Engineer I have no problems taking out turrents either. 3 seismic grenades takes out any turret no matter what the lvl. Also you can throw farther then the lvl2 turret can shoot. Only the lvl3 should give you any trouble. As for turret farming the closer together the better because it makes it easier to take them all out at once.
Yeah, well grenade spamming isnt any better than turret farming in my book. Its actually ironic that you can use one cheap move to beat another. However, i personally think that neither should be encouraged.
A good deterrent for level 3 turret farm is two grenadiers with improved ammo or one grenadier with an engineer on his side. Yesterday in emp_canyon NF farmed the left/western chokepoint quite badly, but we cleaned it up quite fast with grenadiers. And isn't this one of the main uses of grenadier; taking down buildings? And as for using seismic grenades against turrets being bad. Think a while, those damn things are made for taking down buildings! I wouldn't go and make those turrets any shittier than they are. I've seen how a level 3 MG can't take down one pesky rifleman without help. I think you could expect a bit better performance from a turret with two chainguns/two large caliber machineguns. Limiting the comm build turrets so that they can only be built close to structures creates a problem with securing a stronghold or building some cover before building the refinery when you're a bit further from help. But it still gets my vote as it is the best alternative from those presented.
