Turn the armory into a anti-tank bunker.

Turn the armory into a anti-tank 'bunker'.

Yeah yeah bunkers are bad but this is not the average bunker suggestion, I only called it a bunker because if I didn't then some tard would come along and go 'OMG IT'S A BUNKER IT SUCKS' so hopefully this will avert that, at the risk of people reading only the title and not the post and saying the same thing. I reserve the right to eviscerate anyone who does that.

So anyway, the ineffectiveness of grenadiers vs half-decent tanks is well known, yeah yeah I know we have the rpg upgrade but nobody researches it so we might as well not. And the main instance where you'll be pitching grenadiers against tanks is in base defence, so this idea occured to me:

The armory as it stands isn't really all that useful, it's used if you place one but if you don't engineers just drop ammo crates, so it isn't really neccesary. So I was thinking of giving it a use as a defensive building.

Now I said anti-tank bunker and the reason I said that is because I was thinking of this being the primary use for it, as a building that grenadiers can use to fight from, not as a real bunker. If a grenadier is hanging out in the structure he already has ammo and health, which are two things grenadiers need to fight tanks, and a bit of cover, but not much given that tanks can just blast the thing apart from a long distance.

So what I propose is that the armory be given a resistance to tank shells and some other weapons, like walls, this would allow it to be used as cover for any infantry fighting against tanks, I'd also like it to have more defences around the edge, like those road barricade props and dragons teeth/hedgehogs or other detritus in a small ring around the structure, just so that you have more things to take cover behind other than the actual main body of the structure itself.

You could put some fire ports on the structure itself but I don't think that would help, mainly because it would encourage people to just sit in it and take potshots out, whereas the stuff around the edge would require you to come out and risk getting shot, but you still have the health and ammo nearby. It also keeps in an aspect of suppression by an MG or sniper, as if the enemy has your armory really well covered by MGs, riflemen, snipers, or other anti-infantry weapons, you won't be able to do as much as you would against tanks.

The overall effect of this is that it encourages combined arms, you can't just build dozens of tanks and throw them at the enemy as you will run into these bunker-armories and have far more difficulty shifting them than you would if you brought a few riflemen along, it would also reduce the dominance of the dual-rail heavy because HE cannons would be much more useful against these.

It keeps the same functionality as the armory, so the argument 'bunkers are only useful to turtlers' is not applicable, because you would also have to say armories are useless. They would keep the same cost as the armory, or possibly be a cheap upgrade to the armory (you click a button and the armory deploys some barricades and gains the damage resistance) so they couldn't be a waste of resources, the change itself should be easy enough as there are already some nice neutral looking barricade models for both sides and the crates around the buildings can be re-used for this, and it doesn't encourage turtling because the structures are more useful as outposts than bunkers, giving nearby infantry a place to run back to if tanks approach. They can of course be driven past and ignored, but if you have to defend an area, a few of these dotted around would give infantry some chance.

They also encourage the use of artillery and/or grenades to flush out enemies, two things which don't usually happen in empires, scout smoke grenades are also useful as they allow you to close range with the bunker to clear it out.

So in the hope that this doesn't simply get locked for having the word 'bunker' in the title, your thoughts, please.

 

I didn't read your post, but I have been looking into turning the armory into a bunker, right now the size of the NF armory is just a slight problem.

 

Too small?

I might be able to have a go at remodelling it in a couple of weeks if you want.

 

Awesome idea.

/signed

 

I think the NF arrmory is the perfict size and layout for this idea let me try and demonstraite.

A-armory P-parimeter
____
/ ___ \-----P
l l A l l
\ \ / /

This way you can aim them

 

Maybe a new idea added into tank's shells? A better percent chance of shots bouncing off buildings if shot from too far away. That way Tanks would have to get closer to do more damage.

 

I did suggest two grenadier weapon types once, one being a rocket which gains speed and power as it travels, and the other being a recoilless rifle which loses speed and power as it travels. You could work the same thing into tank weapons I suppose but it depends on how it would play out.

 

I think tank bunker ain't a bad idea.

 

Yeah it would be useful during those annoying games where your a grenadier and people keeping getting in your way when you want to shoot at a tank that's right outside your armoury. Would you put firing slots into the BE armoury? That way you don't have to keep running out and in again.

 

Well the idea is sort of that you should have to keep running in and out, and firing slots sort of reduce the safety of the armory building itself, I'd prefer having a fully enclosed structure where you can take cover in as well.

 

You can build bunkers with walls. They raise you off the ground for better protection against explosives, and you don't need a commander (though it will work with one), just an engineer.

Since armories provide pretty decent protection already, combine them with a few walls and you've got yourself a very lovely fort.

I see people doing it with apcs as well.

 

The armory idea doesn't work so good when the enemy has HE and sends a shell into the building...

 

Well that sort of requires that they get into position to fire into the door, which with the NF one would mean going behind the armory, and with the BE one would require going to the side and would then only affect half the interior and has a possibility of missing and going out the other door.

And as I said, you won't be spending all your time inside the armory, so you shouldn't be getting shot by it anyway.

Please read the post.

 

I think you should add little hole you can shoot threw with buttons on the in side that close the holes so you dont get a grenade inside the Bunker. Also you should have a closing door to so the enemy would havt to wait for a door or window hole to open. <(^_^)> or you could just blow the bunker up and you wont havt to wait for somone to open the door/window. also i think you said there would be turrents on the top i forget but if so they should beable to blow up! so they cant just hide in side and keep shooting at the enemy while they cant do anything. So blow up the turrents that are on top so they will come out!

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firing holes will turn int "tank aim here, receive 10 kills" holes

i liked it better when you have to go out of it to fire

good thinking chris!

 

I think these bunkers are a very good idea, it gives an advantage for infantry defending, so that the enemy has to push through and flush out the enemy from behind.

 

it would also serve as a good chokehole tank defence thingy, the commander would place it so that only infantry can pass

 

Empires... doors... WHA?!?!?

 

Usually by the time the enemy is using HE, you're not going to be using infantry for much anyway. But it's a good strategy for early on... certainly using walls to cover an APC can be a good plan (it will die eventually, but it's not like its your CV or something -- often keeping it alive for the time it takes the enemy to recognize what's going on and send someone with a sticky to take it out can be enough for you to capture the area.)

 

Yep, useful armory-bunkers would really give a new way of defending against a stronger enemy (more and / or better tanks). If someone ever going to make it, I advise him to have a look on the neutral (flagged) bunker on the middle of the emp_coast map. It has some small square holes built in their walls, giving excellent cover and also allowing to shoot out clearly while proning, crouching, and standing.
Being capable to build such a structure (of course smaller than the example) can ensure a really good holdout position, especially when you combine them with walls.