The role of turrets

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by duke, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This is for the new game not the mod.

    Is the existing role of turrets good? At some point in the game they become useless, but should this be the case? What about missile defence systems or heavier artillery turrets? Should they stay early game structures or should they become more versatile? Should they be upgradeable beyond level 3?
     
    w00kie likes this.
  2. w00kie

    w00kie Mustachioed Mexican

    Messages:
    3,863
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm ok with the way turrets are and wouldn't add more lvls to them. Instead maybe add more structures or features. Or do you think their dmg / health is too weak late game?

    I think there should be structures, maybe the existing turrets, that give a defensive buff.
    So you do +5% DMG if a lvl 3 MG and ML turret are present 20 meters from your location.

    Or have like advanced cameras that give audio info to the whole team every X time, like " There are 5 enemy forces inside radar range in A1"

    Or have a mine throwing turret that fills the area around it with mines over the course of time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  3. duke

    duke Former Developer (BE Creator)

    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I suppose the main issue is tanks can just wipe them out in 2 or 3 hits, or with a single nuke so tanks just plow through them. MG's are still ok at mopping up infantry late game, but ML's are just useless.

    I am planning on adding manned, larger turret emplacements though, maybe that's the answer.
     
  4. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    9,472
    Likes Received:
    109
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Turrets are not meant to defeat an attack force, they only slow it down to give actual forces (players) time to respond to the threat. They're not a problem even for lights, one can take on 4 at once with just a little trouble. If a heavy stops for 5 seconds to shut down a turret, it did its job already. Nukes are the hard counter to them, making short work of turret farms. They're siegebreaker weapons, very efficient against static defenses by design. MGs serve a purpose that is similar to MLs but more clearly visible thanks to the singular health bar that lets people easily see that they are in fact being poked at. They delay the infantry push until they eat a few seismics/mortars/tank shots and that's it.

    They're only deadly against noobs and desperate last ditch efforts, and for 50/75 resources a pop, I wouldn't expect more from them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
    Neoony and w00kie like this.
  5. w00kie

    w00kie Mustachioed Mexican

    Messages:
    3,863
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just to add to that,
    maybe add faster ML turret missiles into research, so that ignoring turrets (lite tank plowing past them) is deadly --> Enemy needs to take turrets out.
     
    D.D.D. Destroyer likes this.
  6. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    0
    To add on a thought, I know in natural selection 1 and 2 the marines could make turrets to basically shoot alien hives through walls, and I feel if you had arty turrets or whatever that's basically what you'd be adding to empires. Some people, like spartacus, would kinda do this already with ml turrets, but that only really works in low pop games and it's basically admitting your team is crap so you have to rely on turrets to get anything done.

    If it has to be manned though then yeah, I think it would be fine if there was arty turrets or funky guided nuke turrets, because it's not being automated and still requires a players skill to get anything done. Or at least time, but that's still ok.

    Faster ml speeds sounds good though, if only because it's a bit annoying how jeeps and apcs can run past every defense then cause havoc in your base. That's a little too unfun to deal with.
     
    D.D.D. Destroyer and w00kie like this.
  7. w00kie

    w00kie Mustachioed Mexican

    Messages:
    3,863
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think they currently are that slow because of engine limitations (faster ML --> buggy mess).

    Unreal likely does not suffer from such limitations.

    manned turrets:
    [​IMG]
    ^something like that with an attached seat?! :grinnf:
     
  8. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh no, ml speeds can be way faster. It might look a bit wonky if it was super fast speed and turning because it just looks like hax and not natural, but ml turrets can be way faster in source if they wanted it to be without it looking unnatural. I feel like it's a bit slow so people can evade them really, but I don't think they should be able to run past willy nilly like they do now.
     
  9. .Oktay.

    .Oktay. Member

    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    First of all hello duke

    The Turrets ingame makes it hard to capture enemy territory. It makes non strategic attacks useless however if you turret farm important areas you spend allot of time building it and spending less time in the front line for new players is a good opportunity to help the team, but end game it gets 1 - 2 shooted by tanks so it gets not worthy to build it.
    Thats why turrets are useless in the endgame. If you add new levels or make new turret types for the endgame it will just make the game longer. Right now you need like 20 mins for heavys and more for nukes and if both teams are not stacked it goes for 1 hour depends on the map. What empires really needs is more variante in terms of walls/fortify your base, you can only place 1 type of wall and that even cant cover up the barracks or the radar, armory, repair staion completly.

    For examples for new walls type

    Tier 1 walls:

    Walls: The normal empire walls where you can hide infantrys

    Ramps: Tanks can go over it but not from the other side.

    Roofs: Only works on fully build walls you can place walls side ways to have a roof it protecs infantry more from mortars and grenades and also gives a platfrom for the infantry to have the high ground against the enemy

    Tier 2 walls:

    lvl 2 walls: it has more Health points and can build higher than normal walls enough to hide most of the buildings behind it

    Stairs: it gets more levels the more you build it

    Gates: allied players can open/close it.

    It will give the players more freedom and tools to fortify the base or areas of the map and still be usefully in early to late game
    also you can add reasearch to the type or the tier of the walls.

    And here is the best thing about it duke if you add these walls in your new game the community will combine these walls to create new constructs out of it for a examble
    some players in this game use the little walls like dragon´s teeth for blocking tanks. That is why walls be still usefull in the lategame because it supports the playstyle of the player.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
    D.D.D. Destroyer likes this.
  10. Ranger

    Ranger Member

    Messages:
    706
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In other RTS games there are factions focused on base defense and expansion. They achieve victory by bringing their base outside their enemy's base.

    Even if that's not what we exactly want in empires, I think it'd be helpful and give more freedom to commanders to play as they wish. There're can be more researches spread among the 5 research trees, or make a new research tree devoted to buildings and defense.

    Problem is that if one chooses to go for defenses, their tanks will be weak. It will consume a lot of time from the main vehicle research. I don't know how it can be balanced since there can be only one research at a time. Also more structures and defenses means more resources spent. The income would have to be very different from the current Empires.

    Edit: Forgot to mention, as per defensive structures I would like to see small bunkers, loaded with ammo, where grenadiers and riflemen can fire in peace.

    I would also like deployable weapons by engineers and grenadiers. From light mg's to anti tank autocannon, automatic grenade launcher and even heavy antimaterial rifles
     
  11. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You have to balance those ideas with the fact that 98% of the players are not playing an rts. As long as those building things can be interacted with the players and more usefully only work with players using them then that kinda research is a good idea. Anything automated and not requiring players outside of building said structures would be detrimental I think to the rest of the team's fun factor.

    You'd also get angry vets kicking comm for not giving them fun toys to play with, and that's just a pain to deal with.

    Also I'd like bunkers to just be a default building, but it's not like you can't do that with a couple of walls and an armory right now. Or you could just upgrade an armory into a bunker, I suppose that's actually more convenient in a few ways.
     
  12. w00kie

    w00kie Mustachioed Mexican

    Messages:
    3,863
    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "commander drop a lolfort at my location"
     
  13. .Oktay.

    .Oktay. Member

    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    These new type of walls would be accessible for both commander and the enginner class

    the walls have 2 tiers, tier 1 walls and tier 2 walls

    tier 1 walls dont need research and can be build at the start

    tier 2 walls has more utility and will be used more often than tier 1 thats why you need to research tier 2 walls not tier 1

    again if a player has both options tier 1 and 2 he can combine it to new structures for a examble useing the roofs and stairs from both tiers will give you are tower and i know that some creative players will build more complexed structures than that

    of course my idea can be adjust for a example enginners can only buld tier 2 walls if they use a skill the same for lvl 3 turrets
    or some types of wall counts more than 1 wall for a example the tier 2 wall it would count 10 walls because it has more hp and is higher

    turrets will longer the game but walls give you depth in terms of base defense and architecture
     

Share This Page