Ok this thread isn't so much for the squad powers themselves. But I was thinking about what will it take for the average squad leader to insist on the squad staying together. And for the average squad person to stay by his squad (NOTE: average, as the typical player, myself included, tend to stray away from the squad after a while) So then I thought what if squad powers didn't just help out a little, but A LOT. So I came up with ideas irregardless of balancing issues for the moment just as thought provocation. Just imagine if this was implemented, would you more likely stay by your squad to build up squad points to use these? (And before anyone complains balancing issues, yes this is not considering balancing, just teamwork) Scout: Recon: not only spot targets, but guns will have slightly of an auto-aim affect when near the enemy. (If your gun is somewhat close to the enemy, it will adjust your aim to the dead center of the enemy) Hide: actually not only hides, but continues to hide the person EVEN IF he's firing his weapon. Rifleman: Charge: Unlimited stamina. All grenades can't hurt infantry under charge. Armor: Acts like dig-in where 50% of the shot is absorbed. Unlike dig-in it doesn't go to stamina Grenadier: Damage Increase: Doubles weapons damage. Also all infantry weapons can hurt and damage tanks (with different respective firepower) Artillery: Actually ignores tanks armor and goes straight for the hull. One arty can take out lt + apc. It brings artilleries tanks and meds down to red. Brings heavies down to yellow. Engineer: Squad Revive: More like squad teleport. Squad doesn't have to be dead. They can't be in a vehicles though. Instant Heal: Rather than just healing them, it gives them rapid regeneration of health when not under fire. Just like Halo's shield system. I understand many of these powers are overpowered. But in all honesty, would you be more inclined to stay with your squad leader to build up the points if squad powers were this powerful or somewhere along these lines?
There is always the same problem to balance this for flag and commander maps. But I like them. Even if many of you might think that it's overpowered. On commander maps the current squad powers are useless. At beginning when infantry is important you don't have enough points and later it's almost always about tank vs. tank. Increasing the squad powers dramatically would give them a little more importance. And on flag maps I would give them a try, because both teams will be overpowered and so the squad leaders will become more important. And maybe we should start to think about some balance parameters for flag and commander maps. E.g. squad points multiplier: Commander maps = x2 Flag maps = x0.5
Commander maps are where squad points actually matter. All those squad points in conquest maps dun do shit
My suggestion to squad powers would be like this: Squad leaders can activate/deactivate 1 or more powers at any given time and for as long as the powers are active, they drain 1 point every X timeunits. The better powers drain points a bit faster - optimal would though be if all drained the same (except for the instant activation powers of course) The influential area should at most be 1.5x as large as the passive bonus that you get if you are close, so this means that in order to get the activated bonuses, you still have to stick close but not need to be too close either. On the other hand, the general duration of the powers would be much longer. Maybe weakened a bit to compensate. Some powers like arty strike would have to work the same obviously. As for revive, I would like it to not insta-revive and teleport troops, but rather if the power is active, and if you die whilst being within the area of effect range, you will get up again on the spot (half health) once the respawn timer hits 0 or after X number of seconds. Reason for this change is that current revive is just too powerful in certain circumstances - and it is the only power that makes no sense whatsoever. As for the rifleman powers - with a prolonged duration and range, people could actually consider using them.
i like the ideas, and think most of them are not overpowered at all as long as they require enough squad points :p squad powers can be a little to the "powerfull" side to me, since they need to be able to turn a losing fight to a massive victory (not on map scale, but like, on squad on squad showdowns)
haha, i intentionally went over the top, just because I want to see as a community, do you think with stronger squad powers, will squads want to stick together?
I don't like these suggestions. They would give squad powers too much influence on the game. Squad powers shouldn't decide games. Additionally, too many of these have unlimited range. And buffing Artillery is simply uncalled for -- yes, I know squad arty is fun. It also doesn't really fit in with the whole concept of squad powers, since it doesn't actually encourage people to stick together very well (fine, you earn more squad points -- but that's too abstract for most people.) Squad powers should give a benefit to squad members near you, in one fashion or another. That will encourage players to stick together. And beyond that, they should have the minimum effect possible while still encouraging the desired behavior. I also think that they should work via a regenerating meter that can easily be maxed out and isn't directly dependent on points (though perhaps having more squad members nearby earning points should speed it up.) I don't see the need for squad powers to be a "win more" ability. They only exist to encourage desired behavior. They shouldn't do anything else. A regenerating meter that maxes out (and regenerates faster when the squad is together) will encourage people to stick to use squad powers more often, which will make people say "Ooo, squad powers are neat!" and stay with their squad. Otherwise, you get people saving them until the end of the match... which results in most people ignoring them. And that means they often end up never being used, too. That's no good. We want them to be used a lot, so people will see them and be encouraged to stick with the squad that is giving them these regular benefits. Nobody is ever going to help their squad leader build squad points. The idea is stupid. Grinding squad points is not fun. The game should be won by taking refs, not by focusing on squad points. Squad points should be abstracted away to the point where people don't think about them; instead, it should be the powers themselves (which should all be 'localized', except maybe revive, which localizes the squad for you) that encourage people to stay near the source of those benefits.
If you have a squad of 3 bad ass players you will notice how much advantage the powers will give you. Instant heals while running for cover, squad revives while sneaking behind enemy lines, artys for those barracks being repair whored A good squad of 3 vs 10 players and the squad of 3 wins
There is actually no such thing as "grinding" squadpoints in Empires. All you have to do is stick close together and play the game reasonably good and the points will just rack up by themselves. There's absolutely nothing else to it.
But you will not have the squad points to do this. The last time I played I had a look on the squad points: emp_escort = 200+ points emp_isle = 11 points I used the squad points on emp_isle for one instant heal and one squad revive (no more tickets left at end). And it's not practicable to get much more squad points. You can't fight for the 14 refineries and stick together at the same time. Especially when driving tanks. On other commander maps you probably get some more squad points but always not enough to use them often .
