... rest stays the same. [Pros] Needs teamwork to take out bases again - it counters "lone wolfing" (you removed 9mining because of that). Sabotage will stay efficient enough with instant damage and the effect. [Cons] You wont feel like a pro anymore when you screw over small games on your own [Alt] Remove the instant -50% damage and notify about sabotage
When we want to remove the most important effect from sabotage, then the other effects need to be extended. Refinery: Outputs no resources or Refinery: Half of the resources go to own team the other half to enemy team Radar: Additional message for research completed if enemy has finished research. Armory: Ammo and health crates or without function. Repair Station: Does not repair. No changes for Barracks, VF and turrets. 50% damage should stay. Saw only a few cases where scout helped to destroy bases. And this kind of teamwork should be promoted.
I wouldn't mind seeing the effects extended or perhaps enhanced. Radar: Takes 1.2x as long to research, commander does not get a "Research Complete" message, enemy tanks in the area revealed. Refinery: 25% Goes to the scout's team, 25% is wasted, 50% goes to enemy's team. A scout running around in a jeep shouldn't be able to majorly affect the economy of the game. Barracks: No stamina at start, 50% health. Repair station: Does not repair, can not recustomize. Vehicle Factory: Tanks start with half ammo. Might be OP, but meh.
most important from a teamplay perspective are the -50% health. just driving around in jeeps and just sabbing refs is such a cheap strategy - you sab faster than an engi repairs - means you either force 2 guys to care about you (engi repairs and another guy kills you) or you waste lots of resources on rebuilding over and over again or you dont care about the resources and do the same. and all that only occures in small games because in larger ones sabotaged stuff gets noticed fast enough. and dont tell me turrets pose any threat to scouts, they have free points written in huge letters above them and only lead to even higher resource waste ... i would go so far to say that even the 50% damage together with an engineers seismics and a few clicks of the calculator are a bit much, but thats somethign i dont even dare to suggest - at least it needs basic teamwork (and be it only that the engi waits the few seconds until the rax is sabbed till he starts his nadespam
Mmm... I do kinda like your idea Scardy, but i'm concerned that there are hidden flaws. Perhaps repetitive saboutage is a bad thing for that idea? flasche, I would like to see DoT reduced by half for certain buildings and removed altogether for some others...but I don't want it universally removed as it's useful. Low priority buildings should still have DoT...armouries should still have full DoT for instance, but major buildings should have DoT removed but a crippling effect introduced - for instance, research takes 10 seconds longer per item, building has half health to indicate saboutage, but otherwise you have no idea it has been done...although a warning "our building is under attack" once per sab may be introduced. Tbh...DoT has been way too much in 2.24d but we already knew about that, it's just been so long since we had a patch that it's taken a back seat. It should have been reduced...by about 30%, anyway. I would like to see different effects though, spawning a vehicle at half health is still pretty fail, and i'd like to see that mechanism replaced by something like vehicles spawning with only plain & standard instead - a somewhat similar effect, except it's silent, doesn't make newbies cripple the team, and would provide an advantage for as long as it was in affect. Similarly, barracks spawning infantry at half health is a baaad idea, and leads to all kinds of skullbuggery. I'd rather see spawn times increased instead of even Scardy's "20 sec inoperational spawnpoint", to making spawning times increase to 15 secs per person. Saboutaged barracks spawn people slower, not worse off. That's just my take on it, and the radar idea may be pretty bad, lol.
stop overcomplicating my suggestion (all of you) removing the DoT is enough for one patch level. if it works out, we are settled, if not change on ...
We had no DoT before. Scouts were more useless to their team. At least with DoT, they can do something, even if it is horribly overpowered.
yes but thats because of the guys that play scouts ... snipesnipe, hinthint in 2.12, when the DoT was broken (because IIRC it was intended to have it) i remember having nebajoth as scout on my side and we took out several bases - we drove close to a rax, he sabbed, ran into the rax to punch whatever spawns there, while i threw a sesimic and deconned. so dont tell me you cant use it without that bleed thing because i HAVE used it back then. but yes i know, everything that requires even a bit of coordination and doesnt let you rambo on your own is not wanted ...
I didn't say that it wasn't useful, but it's just as effective as maybe having an engineer, instead of it. Btw, in 2.12, I could single handedly take down bases as an engineer and very quickly too. I can't do that with half as much chance of success as I used to have, which is actually probably a good thing, although somewhat less fun sometimes. Also, your point is that scouts snipe. DoT being OP'd is obviously evidence that they do much more now...even if it's something annoying, it's still useful. But please, don't let me interrupt you applying something that does not in any way to apply to me. I have and never will be an advocate for solo-play, i'm merely trying to preserve something that actually has made an otherwise pretty stupid class, not a complete throwaway for the team. I no longer groan that a scout will be completely useless because it has to work in conjuction with it's team to do anything good, it can actually do something, other than fail. The ability is OP and not really what the scout needs, but as it has something that at least gives it a little value as a class, don't take that away until you can replace it with something else.
Only one sabotaged radar has the loss of research time effect. Any additional sabotaged radars will simply add to the area in which the saboteurs's team sees enemy tanks.
I think disrupting research is too powerful an effect. That could too easily decide the entire game on account of one scout.
The 120% research time only lasts when the radar is sabotaged. Most buildings are healed (especially the radar) before they die.
sabotage is a crappy game mechanic UNLESS it is used in conjunction with teammates to quickly raze a base. Removing the dot to everything except turrets would be fine (it'd be a lot like how it was in 2.22, which was much better), and it doesn't need any buffs to compensate.
