This is a big change, but I was thinking... What if Artillery was no longer self-propelled and required another tank to pull it to the front line. Artillery could be just as powerful, but with greatly reduced mobility. This would enable greater teamwork (i.e. by requiring transportation from other players and greater protection), and cut down on the absolute power of artillery. Protecting artillery would be easier in one way (because there is at least one tank there already) but in another way, destroying artillery would be easier, because each artillery piece would not be armoured. Infantry operating it would be open to small arms fire. This is the same as old-fashioned artillery, so if anyone knows what I'm talking about, they should get the picture. This artillery would be a massive weight to be pulled, and would slow down the tank pulling it. This might mean that artillery would be available early in the game, but the engines required to move it would not be developed until later. I think that Infantry should be able to pull it themselves, but with such a slow speed, this might not be a gameplay factor. I will make a pro con list after everyone here tears apart/advocates this idea. The cons that I see following this idea revolve around balancing and coding, which are big hindrances in any new suggestion. Also, how does the artillery crew get to the battlefield, hitching a ride on the artillery piece, or being towed by an APC? Up and At Them!
Jkun: you play too much escort XD I would like to see stationery stuff like this, and AA and m60, that can be mannable and requires atleast 2 classes to use, I already said this in another topic, dno who remembers it, I explained it more there But I wouldn't want to see the arty get turned into this. It slows down the game way too much, arty is like the siege from ns, without it the game will turn into a stalemate, by forcing other tanks to push it with those kinds of requirements, would mean its nearly impossible to use an arty, and sounds more like a luxury. Again it would slow down the game immensely, and its already a very slow paced game. It would take too much time to get an arty in to action, meaning it would actually work a lot better as defence, and most of you will know what the nod artillery in tiberian sun (before the patch) was like. Ofcourse in tiberian sun it fired automaticly, but still. nobody would have time to actually pull a artillery (or make their awesome expensive tank, with the awesome engine, vulnerable to enemies because its so godamn slow while pulling the arty), especially not more people, and a crew is too much man off the field. If you are going to play an 8 vs 8 game, (maybe bad example since its a very low number) thats way too much people being busy with a almost useless artillery structure since it needs loads of defence and most likely will be abandoned most of the time, I can imagine when this gets implemented a lot of people finding ways to make it impossible for an arty to be used offensively. If you look at the background of that picture, and compare it to the game, it wouldnt fit in at all, the empires maps are really small, it wouldnt work out, youll have to trust me on this one. Ofc you can go ahead and make pros and cons, nobody knows what the devs have in mind with the game, but I wouldnt waste my time on it if I were you. Edit: and lets not forgot, without the crew this thing is worthless, obviously they arent inside one of those things, which means they are very very vulnerable, why would you take out a building if you can just take out its crew making it useless? It could work ofc, but im guessing it would need at least some kind of defence in the layout of the map (imagining it as NF at around a1 on canyone right now), and to let it work effectively it would need more than just a few men and tanks, probly the tanks would need a repair station to be able to stay near the arty and defend it (like against the arty's in the BE base that is turtling ), because obviously infantry is your weakpoint, so it would most likely need a barracks aswell behind the cliff, and maybe even a vehicle factory because you cant lose a tank or you will lose your arty. What im going at is what I have learned from tiberian sun without patch, you dont need lots of money to defend your base with arty, you can just turtle with a few arty's and save up while the enemy is draining their resources on your few arty's in base that can be maintained a lot easier. Ofcourse attacking has more plussides, and I wouldnt mind making turtling more viable strategy, but I wouldnt see this work at all and lets not forget the fun factor here. I actually stopped going for arty after 1.01 because its just no fun at all as it is, not moveable, pulling, more teammates, vulnerability ect, is frustrating and makes me want to punch someone in the stomach till he bleeds from his anus. Also if you read the part above where i said nobody would want to make his tank vulnerable to push the arty, resources are actually very very important and thats probly my key argument against it (if you lost it in the shit i said above). The losing team will lose even more badly because of the winnings team base defence that they can pull out immidiatly and basicly dont need to move, and defending the arty would also cost tons and tons of money, which would mean not only would this be a big change to the arty, but also to the current weight and price system of everything, because it has to be totally different. For instance, crossroads is the kinda map that can turn into a stalemate very fast without arty, funny thing is, there are only 8 resnodes on that map, thats way to low to be able to afford something like, especially on a map with those chokepoints. Isle has a lot of resources, but on the other hand is a map with loads of passages to get somewhere, which would mean you would need defences on multiple sides to be able to defend one arty, and if hes on the hill, where its a bit harder for tanks to get on (only to ramps to it, but loads of ladders for infantry, so grenadier still pwn), he could be shot down from miles away and from every side because it so high in the air.
Problem - Person gets a jeep (cheap) and pulls their arty to the place, deploys it, and has a free transport/getaway car when they need to move
But its not all about the maps, layout and amount of resnodes on money makes it a pretty good map for this if im correct, but meh I dont consider that to be a really good map compared to all the other ones doobie made.
i woud like to see arty weakend to a level of "a bit more powerful cannon then a standart tank one" then have the commander build a stationary building (power of arty now, but can shoot a bit more further cous it is stationary) that can be entered like a tank with a cannon like on the picture, manned by 2 crewmembers crewmember 1 aims and shoots the cannon (controlling the degree of angles and rotation of the cannon) crewmember 2 has his special radar (based upon the minimap) to see where the cannon wil hit and can check the map for any marked targets i woud personally make it cost 800 to 1200 credits and have it quite a splash damage let it fire evry 10/15 seconds and do damage of 120 (clse to arty now)
There are easier methods of dealing with arty spam buuut I would really love infantry pulled cannons. Example =P
I said it once I will say it again. Make the artillery have to become stationary and lock itself in the ground. Giving it a delay to do deploy and a delay to be able to move again./
i woud prefer a building like a big turrent (lol no yust kidding turret it is) or maybe have a vehicle and on deploy it turns into a structure with the artillery gun on it (being manned by the driver) and can be packed later if needed when packed it woud be weaker, can move, is unable to defend itself when unpacked it is stronger ( like + 35 % armor) a building (so cant move) and able to defend itself by artillery cannon (can rotate and pitch so you dont need to repack to turn it) so basicly, the idea above but then deployed as a building!
I would just like to see artillery with greatly reduced speed and agility, with an increased minimum range. Forcing it to be pulled slows down its mobility too much, and the way it is now, everyone in a tank wants to rush in to battle. A greatly reduced speed is essentially the same thing, but without the frustration of finding someone to hitchhike with.
what about an immobile artillery gun, that can only be moved by the might of Eric the colossal beast of mount boom. He could be summoned by the the head bopping beats of four on the funk. (4 players required for this with four individual skills : 1. Bass guitar skill 2. Drumming skill 3. Robot dance skill 4. Band management skill) This would certainly solve the problem of arty rape.
And it would also make it useless. Why bother with using Eric to pull a artillery gun, and instead make him pick up the enemy comm and "place it" next to the moon! :eek:
What if the artillery is pulled by a dedicated vehicle or truck, that is built along with the artillery (i.e. they are one unit). That way, artillery can drive themselves to battle, hop out of the truck, launch some shells after a 5 sec deploy time (for instance) get back in the truck, drive the arty to a new position, deploy fire some shells etc. It would still allow artillery, when firing, to be vulerable, it would add a deploy time, and it would maintain mobility. Dizzy, I don't think that artillery would be a good defensive weapon, because they would have to try and hit mobile units, which ideally should be difficult to do. You worry about the increased difficulty of defending Artillery, along with the increased cost. I wonder if that is how it should be. Artillery shouldn't be able to defend themselves, they should require major backup. This whole argument will change when Airplanes are introduced, but for the time being, is the argument that this would make arty too weak, or turret farms too strong? Do we have any other options than destroying a base with artillery? I hope there are other options
well if you would have 4 arty as base defence, vs a few vehicles, one which is going relatively slow because he is carrying an arty, I wouldnt say its impossible. Especially not arty vs arty, because the offensive arty still needs to be in place and get the crew to be ready and deployed, while the defending arty's can already target the offensive arty's when they get in range, or even prepare themselves before they get in range by being spotted or by a commander. It would make arty too weak and I do think you need arty to finish some games, it only makes turretspams stronger if they are defended well, with arty maybe ;p
I hadn't really thought about defending against stationary artillery, but wouldn't this make people use artillery more realistically (though I caution to use that word). They would have to be out of visual range, and rely on a scout to find targets, while protecting their position. Maybe in coordination with a decent strategy to limit turret farms, this would open the game up to more tank and infantry battles. Without overpowered turret farms, we don't need overpowered artillery.
