New Tech for Soldiers

I bleive that as the game progresse's and we work up the Tech tree, That the Soldiers in the field should get some kind of upgrade as well. Upgraded bullets, and Grnade rnd's would be neat, better body armor and what not would also be a +.

Now Im not saying that a Soldier should be able to blow a tank up in 2 hit's but this could add an interesting element to the game.

IF a commander does not research better body armour for his troops. and the opposing comm. researches better ammunition ( explosive shells) then mabey the guys with the explosive bullets, could reak havock on the poorly armored enemy. Same with Bio weapons and what not.

To this end, I believe there should be not only a life bar, but a armour bar as well. Medics and Scouts get none, Riflemen medium, and Grenaders, MAX. but wait Im getting off my topic,

My point is that It only makes sense that the research we do in some way benefits the Grunt soldier.

Kanis.

 

sugar coated bullets ftw

the way I see it this might work on everyones nerves
-commanders getting screamed at by their team to get these upgrades, or atleast half of them that want this over tanks
-other half having to wait longer for tanks or upgrades because obviously if you do not have this compared to the enemy you might be in big big shit
-the other team having it, this with worse recoil for nf riflemen making it even a bigger pain in the ass for nf while fighting.

Ok errm I could go on for very long why I do not think this is a very good idea.
Its like the civic 'emancipation' in civ4, when it comes in play, everyone that doesnt have it is forced to get it.

We already have rank skills, altho this bends more towards the winning team most of the time, its a big boost for infantry already, a riflemen with a bigger chance of killing, ofc has bigger chances vs every single riflemen, so if you look at it this way, +10 damage for riflemen is like a research, it just doesnt need a commander, more armor? what did you think of the more health skill, and so on...
Now it would look like researching this stuff could make more strategy and give the losing team a chance, but do not be mistaken, infantry is the cheapest force and the most consistent over the whole game, giving them a boost is very effective, so this will probly make the game more boring, research wise.

And also, there isnt really a 'working your way up the research tree'
There is, but its not like you need a certain combination of research to get something unlocked, so that would mean, the commander will most likely go for a certain tactic and research whatever he needs for it. The way you said this was like it should be time dependant, research is more cost dependant then time dependant (time vs resources), ranks are more time dependant than research.

Let me give an example, if it would mean that explosive shells and an infantry tech in that category would make grenadiers mortars stronger, and let me exaggarate a bit to get my point clear, that it could be used as arty, this would obviously be something comm and players want to have asap, making them be able to take down buildings and infantry from far away and with ease, grenadier mortars dont cost anything, and the grenadier can respawn for no cost except one ticket.

 

How about having a different building (e.g. a prototype lab or something(ns steal ftw )), that only researches soldiers improvements?

 

Well, I don't think we need techs for infantry, because as one of them you get the skill...

 

You also get many skills that are applicable only to tanks and vehicles. And yet tanks still can be upgraded and researched. I think Infantry need research of their own. Not in their own branch, but as a parallel to existing research.

For example, the commander researches explosive rounds, this also gives infantry explosive rounds, which do slightly more damage (10-15%) and/or can damage tanks (very slowly). So now instead of running around with a rifle that does 40 damage per shot, you have a weapon that does 44 damage. If you have the improved damage skill, then you can do 48 damage.

 

what if the infantry had deployable weapons based on the techs that had been researched, such as a field plasma gun/bio gun, things like that. they wouldn't be as powerful as a tank's weapons, but they would give infantry a chance against tanks late in the game when grens aren't that powerful.

 

true, but tanks are like mechs, they have a crew and the tank itself, the better the crew is, the more you can get out of the tank, its like the sweet combo.

Infantry are not useless in late game, one grenadier should not be able to take down a heavy tank by himself, with the new weight restrictions the tanks arent that powerfull anymore.

Another problem is that you cannot make a weapon filter what it does damage more to, it would be really silly if it was like this and very illogical, what im trying to say is that, buildings do not get better (well except turrets, but even those i believe have the same hp as level1), neither do infantry, you cant just balance infantry late game towards heavy tanks, because youll make them overpowered vs buildings and infantry.
Also there is no real way too make something late game except putting a timer up when you are allowed to research stuff or needing lots of money, different kinds of research to unlock something, or stuff like that which are big changes to the current gameplay(not saying big changes are wrong, but big changes always breng a lot of new unbalances and problems with them), which makes no sense at all since its a rts, a timer takes out strategy and is more like a superweapon or something, which infantry upgrades obviously dont fall under.
Making it a different building that might even need certain research to be able to build it, still makes my first post completly viable and will not make something a late game addition.
This would change gameplay drastically and I think the reason why you want this are ungrounded, or you need to explain a bit more about why.
Because infantry arent useless in late game, so ok it might be impossible to take down 6 heavy tanks and an arty even with a 10 man grenadier team.
But obviously an end game should consist out of tanks and infantry vs tank and infantry, if you are not able to pump out tanks and get overmastered with loads of tanks, you are pretty much losing.

Infantry ofcourse does get better (as i kinda stated wrong up here somewhere) with the ranks and these new research, but this would pretty much make the 2 the same again and will take away any use for it against infantry, except that the research got more complicated , this mod obviously is leaning more towards less complex strategies (comparing it to a rts) which would mean making research tree more complex would make it a lot more forced, its a slow paced game, more research etc doesnt really work, you cant go for completly different strategies because the time and resource gap will widen very very easily making very little margin for mistakes, especially when you have something like infantry getting upped drasticly. You could say this the moment when the other team loses, but that not really so because with infantry research (read my last post why its really bad when it comes to something like infantry, where it only costs you one time and takes like a few minutes a piece) you will give your most consistent unit troughout the game have a better chance at everything, getting resources, mapcontrol, sieging base, pinning down enemies at chokepoints.

This could make the game a lot faster but on the other hand also make a lot less tactics viable for the starting game, which is a drag.

and also may I add that altho infantry does get better at taking out tanks and turrets, more research is a very big cost for something useless like 4 damage extra or something small like that, and something too big is obviously overpowered, adding this to that you are forced to get these upgrades or else you will have a fucking hard time battling their infantry (yeh i had to say it again so its a bit more clear, since my reasoning is a bit chaotic lol)

and its nice to also remember that this is a teamplay game, why not suggest things that involve teamwork instead of more ramboage, im betting most of you will get pwned by this stuff more than that you are going to use it yourself, not trying to say you all suck, but just like most games, the majority is an average player. Im not implying anything with this, its not even directed to anyone, its a fact.

edit: deployable guns sound pretty cool imho :D

 

Good points dizzy, i just wish that one of the skill upgrades made it slightly more possible to take down a tank with a gren. I'm not talking about massive tank pwnage by one gren, that would be rediculous. Tanks have armour and weapons to counter other armour and weapons, grens don't have any of those advantages

 

The research is not seperate for infantry. What i was proposing was that researching explosive shells, would not only allow HE machineguns, or HE arty, or HE tank shells, but also HE infantry bullets. Just because there is no current way for infantry to counter anything in late game doesn't mean it has to be that way.

With that said, I would still prefer the researched techs to instead give deployable guns. For example, after explosive shells, grens can opt to choose a deployable mortar, instead of their normal weapon. Or riflemen can choose tp deploy a heavy machinegun with a choice of all the currently available machinegun tech, IE, bio, exploding, plasma, et cetera.


EDIT: Dizzy, please use the almighty period. Run-on sentences are a pain to read.

 

Thanks Guys

Thanks for all your thought's on my post guys ! , Lots of good info from everyone.

Kanis.

 

You can already upgrade grenade and mine damage . . .

 

Infantry should be tied into research, because that's what makes sense. Any problems with "ohnoes, they're artillery now" can be solved through balance, rather than gameplay alterations.

How to do it: another building is bad IMO, as is another research tree. First off, it doesn't make sense because the commander is researching technology within a field, which could then be applied to numerous things. Second, adding another tree makes for excessive micromanedgement. So researched upgrades should unlock not only items for vehicles, but also similar items for infantry. Of course, like in vehicles, infantry would customize their loadout, picking weapons, bullets, etc.

 

exactly

FalconX, that is pretty much what I was thinking, Good point !!

Kanis

 

It would be nice if grendiers rockets benefited from things like HE, extended range (mortars can hit anything close regardless of range...), homing missiles, improve guided missiles, etc. Bio weaponry would be a nice touch to certain weapons, perhaps something for the scout? and explosive bullets would be very nice on riflemen's heavy MGs if they did something like 1 damager per bullet (50 damage in a clip, fair against a tank that should have an MG and infantry support to begin with)... Existing upgrades should be applied to infantry in smaller ways -.- Plus, I'm sick of being *just* out of range with a mortar round and having to move forward. If done right, it would add some nice balance to the game where infantry and tanks need to go together, as opposed to tank spam rush... That is, of course, presuming they fix the MGs on the tanks so that they are actually *worth* something. Bio regen armor would be an interesting thing too; perhaps something like 0.2 hp/s on infantry? Not enough to mean anything in a firefight, but very meaningful afterwards if moving forward.

 

yeah, im glad people think deployable weapons are good, and that they can scale up as research increases. the regen armour is already covered by a skill upgrade, so theres an issue there. maybe the different armour that the infantry choose change the speed at which they move. That could be a coading nightmare, but its an interesting dynamic

 

hmm i must ve missed that part completly tieing the infantry research to the same as tanks >,>

well if any other already existing gameplay needs defending to death im there

 

lol I love you RPG, you are the keeper of Empires orthodoxy.

 

someones gotta do it :D

 

I was thinking that rather than letting the commander research infantry upgrade, let the infantry do it themselves. Give each infantry man 1 resource point for every 100/1000 resource the commander gets and let them buy a few upgrades for themselves?

It would be pretty much like the skill system which I don't currently approve of since you're unlikely to get more than 1-2 skills on any given map and they'll pretty much always be the same skills for each class.

Well it's a suggestion...

 

Imagine escort with all the inf upgrades in....