With no new info from the devs about the upcoming changes to research, and partially in response to http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=10319, I present a possibly more balanced research plan. Sorry for the long post in advance. The current research is based around what plays to the teams strengths, BE gets cannons that go boom, NF gets missiles that go bang. This is based purely on the BE heavy having 2x 3 slot cannons and NF heavy having 2 and 3 slot missiles. This in itself is not bad, as it offers a slight difference in game play depending on what side you are on, the real problem is in a lack of balanced research. With the current system, less research is better, and it is very rare to see three trees opened. The current reason for research: Mechanical is a must for tanks, and is being excluded. Physics- ER arty, nukes. BE almost always gets this, Nf seems to get this when they are going for nukes. Chemistry- Not may people get HE or coolant anymore unless its late game but NF might get this for UML/absorbent. Electrical- somewhat lost its flavor in 2.24 with the nerf to reactive, 3phase is still somewhat popular for the more open maps as well as homing/guided for NF. Bio- rare, especially for BE. Usually only researched if the other team has regen or to counter DU. Bio desal for use with nukes/to counter plasma. The lack of balance in research relates to the availability of weapons: Physics: 2 MGs, cannon, and the only 3slot missile Chem: MG/ML/CN Electrical: 2 missiles, the only 3slot cannon Bio: Mg/ML Mechanical: Tanks As it stands now, the team that opens the fewest trees wins, so for BEto get duel rails they rush it and end up with no armor (reactive is just to heavy) unless they are lucky and can afford composite. Any other choice is just better. Mechanical should stay as the "tank tec" but the the other trees get a bit of a change. With 4 trees, every tree is good against 1, bad against one and average against one. This leaves 1 tree unassigned and the question of how a tree performs against itself. I personally like the bio on bio effect, ie if you get regen when they have bio, you are never going to com again. To keep things in balance, each tree, with the exception of mechanical, gets an armor, engine, missile, mg, cannon, and "utility" sub tree. example trees may be Physics: reflective, fission engine, armor bypass missile (a small amount of damage bypasses the armor), DUMG, ER, and plasma warhead: increased heat to target by 10 (cannon and missile) is the utility Other utility ideas Chem: improved coolant systems, increases heat dissipation by 1 Auto loader (electrical): reduces loading time by .5 seconds Bio propellant: reduces heat from weapons by 5 The only weapons research in mechanical is utility based: High precision components- increase rate of fire for secondary weapons (1 and 2 slot MGs). This allows for a second RoF value to be used, giving more dps but increasing your own heat. The 50cal get moved here Code: Example Medium Chain Gun Research None Cost 110 Damage 32 Heat 0.5 Weight 70 Cycle Time 0.04 Clip Size 150 Total Ammo Clips 4 Reload Time 8.0 Projectile Spread 0.02 Medium Chain Gun -HPC Research High precision components Cost 120 Damage 32 Heat 0.6 Weight 70 Cycle Time 0.03 Clip Size 150 Total Ammo Clips 4 Reload Time 7.0 Projectile Spread 0.015 The idea behind this is to allow for more balanced tweaking as well as keeping the secondary weapons viable.
Page break for word count Two remaining questions: where are the 3slot guns and what did you do with the nukes. The 3 slot guns are more of an upgrade on firepower and damage at the cost of slightly more heat and less RoF. To be fair, the same idea can be applied to missiles. Code: Ranged Cannon x2 Cost 120 Damage 95 Speed 3300 Gravity 0.1 Heat 14 Weight 70 Cycle Time 2 Clip Size 40 Total Ammo Clips 5 Reload Time 2 Heat To Target 0.1 Explosion Radius 200 Explosion Force 100 Ranged Cannon x3 Cost 145 Damage 120 Speed 3500 Gravity 0.08 Heat 17 Weight 90 Cycle Time 2.2 Clip Size 44 Reload Time 2 Heat To Target 0.15 Explosion Radius 225 Explosion Force 150 In order to prevent nukes from getting preferential treatment, they are based on component research and need a small amount of research from each tree. Physics: Implosion physics (20 sec) -> Fission implosion (30 sec) Chem: Precision detonators (30 sec) Electrical: Improved missile electronics (30 sec) Bio: Missile fuel stabilizers (30 sec) Mechanical: Improved missile body (30 sec) With the exception of the base research tree, nukes will take the same amount of time. Other questions that still need to be addressed, 2 slot electrical cannon is a mini rail gun? Electrical MG need to be designed, possibly something that messes with the aim/speed of the tank/weapons. If so, can it be done? Details on physics missile Work on balancing out the utility specials Once there is balance between the trees, ie what tree kills what tree, weapons can in that tree can be balanced, ie how is HE cannon balanced with UML Pros: more options for research and moves away from the 1-tree research that we currently have reduces the imbalance between NF and BE somewhat Allows for a more rock-paper-scissors style research, reducing the favoritism of the side in favor of personal preference. With the exception of the utility idea, all the code is in game. The utility code is a matter of adding a few variables. Cons: Still needs to be balanced, but the current system is in the same boat. Missing some details. I will come back in later and add. Do we even want to go this direction? Comments, criticisms or dev comments are most welcome.
If what I understood is correct, the more powerful weapons/armour have other prerequisites? This is a good idea if so. Implementing it could be a bitch though.
research tree is already getting completely changes up anyhow. Scripts are being redone completely, with some likely changes being new weapons or making each tree have it's own set of weapons. also, talk has been started about multiple research prereqs.
i rather like the idea of the utilities, for late or mid game, to give tanks a boost, this along with the idea of rebuffing meds and this game may be a whole lot funner and may prevent a lot of annoying rushs since veichles will be next to nothing to the other team which may have better utilities to counter them since they may have rushed afvs and not gotten research either way i give this idea a +1 :D
Nukes are the only weapons that need to have multiple prerequisites, otherwise a lot of people will try to "rush nukes" every game and only get physics. With the other weapons, you get 2 guns for 1 research, research HE shells, get the 2 and 3 slot HE cannon. For the rock-paper-scissors research, teams should end up opening 2 research trees, 1 for weapons, 1 for armor, and mechanical for tanks. Composite armor will stay the lightweight armor that costs a fortune and has tons of hp. The circle of death for armor-weapon combos: If they get _ class of armor: the best, 2ed best, 3ed best, worst weapon choices. Electrical: Bio, Chem, Physics, Electrical Bio: Physics, Electrical, Chem, Bio Chem: Electrical, Physics, Bio, Chem Physics: Chem, Bio, Electrical, Physics Armor should take double damage from its own tree, the second choice or composite is no extra damage. Possible side effects of the circle of death, long games will end up having just about every weapon/armor researched, making for some very interesting tank battles. A few of the armors will lose the current bonuses, mostly no more speed and angle modifiers. It is also very likely that I messed up in the armor circle, any feedback will be very useful. MGs that are already present Anti personal bullet hose (50 cal) Damage over time bullet hose (bio) Constant damage/sniper hose (HEMG) Anti vehicle hose (DU) and the always popular Try to overheat them while not overheating yourself heat hose (plasma) Possible electrical MG applications: Slows them down (no heat)- pain to deal with in code, if its even possible Messes with there aim - feels a bit like plasma Increased rate of fire- still feels like plasma
You move 50cal, the weapon that negates infantry influence when you field one apc, into mechanical. The tree you have to research so every game will have it? Wow awesome... With your tree you will lose if you research the wrong armor because your commanders random guess which armor the enemy will use was wrong...
What about 50cal in electrical? As to the armor, both teams are in the same situation, where as now, 9 out of 10 times, BE gets reflective and DU. This is more of lets play chicken with research. The team with better communication skills will be able to counter the opposing teams research. "hey the armor is growing back" and the com gets bio weapons. The weights and costs will have to be changed to balance the armors, but composite is the if you don't want to guess, pick me armor. Instead of having double damage, armors may have a massive flaw against there own tree. HE deals a good amount of heat to target, absorbant gains extra heat.
With the addition of multiple prerequisites, a tree can be built on weapon types and science branches. You can go to the machine gun tree and see that you have basic machine guns available for research. However acquiring weapons such as plasma, Bio, and high explosive would require you to dip into the respective science trees. Apply this to the other weapon types and it may present players with a few more options. Also you can make it so that mid tier weapons cannot be be researched unless bigger chassis is researched. Can also make it so that bigger chassis cannot be researched unless a more advanced engine is researched. This will restrict rushing tactics and put more value in the lower tier research.
