Both have been suggested before and I have problems with both. The first one means that vehicle driving has been reduced to stopping and starting, and the second one means that it's random whether or not you get blown to hell.
How about Defusal does nothing for vehicals but makes mines glow for grenadiers to defuse? and they just clear them out when they see them.
Defusal should absolutely never prevent a mine from going off while you're in a vehicle. I don't even like reduced damage, but letting you ignore mines -- ever -- is just outright hostile to teamwork, since it encourages individual players to grab defusal and leave everyone who doesn't have defusal in the dust (or leave them to die, or whatever.) Defusal's design right now isn't very good. I like the idea of having it highlight mines in your view, and it should let you defuse more at once. Also, it should be a scout skill rather than a grenadier skill, so it can be combined with speed + smoke + concussion grenades + hide + radar invisibility and so on. Scouts naturally have the skillset that goes with getting up close and quietly negating static enemy defenses like mines and turrets; the grenadier skillset, though, is generally more suitable for use at medium to long range. Defusal is just really out of place for them; the only reason they use it now is because it provides the silly-overpowered mine immunity. People always say that if defusal were changed to not magically protect you from mines, nobody would use it, because defusing mines is really hard and boring. I submit that this is not a problem with defusal specifically, but with giving defusal to grenadiers -- it's a huge bother for them to reach a minefield, because they lack synergies that help with it, and it works at cross-purposes with their other abilities, which generally work at long range, over walls, and so forth. But it fits in fine with scouts. Any scout who uses sabotage (and we have plenty, now that sabotage is buffed) would actually use a purely mine-removal focused defusal, especially if they could use their binoculars or enhanced senses or something to highlight mines from a distance, so they know where danger points are and can clear them to help their team. I would go so far as to say that removing mines should be an innate ability for scouts, not a skill at all; defusal should perhaps simply be removed from the game completely. Highlighting mines could be given to Enhanced Senses, if necessary. And Hide could let you crawl over mines, too. But no special protections from mines. Nothing that helps you drive or walk over them, or bypass them without looking at them, or anything like that. It's just a bad idea. Mines are an excellent opportunity to encourage teamwork and cooperation; there shouldn't be any way to just take an "anti-mine specced' character and ignore or minimize them.
Yes I was just trying to move this discussion from the "official 2.24 release" topic to a new thread...
I don't see the big deal. Grens have mines Engis have walls Rifleman have Infantry Scouts have turrets (but don't really in my opinion) Some defense which each class has (or should have) a clear advantage over the other classes. Im fine with defuse stopping mines. Use more turrets, walls and/or infantry. If you really don't think turrets, walls or infantry work well enough, buff them. Maybe higher level mls do more damage and home more. Maybe running over an infantry slows a vehicle by 15% of its current speed for 15 seconds (cumulative). Maybe remove the extra damage walls take now (exept for engi earthquakes). Maybe buff mines so that defusal is basically standard vehicle driving skill, like repair for engis. Or the gren could take extra ammo or something instead of mines. Its a defense that doesn't hamper your own teams movement, why should it hamper the enemy that took a skill to stop it? Also, as an aside, escort would be impossible for BE with something else. NF could (and usually already does) just control everything with metric fucktons of mines. But we all know we can't balance just because of one map or game type.
What ever happened to that idea with the RC demo cars. They were small RC cars with explosives on them that could be controlled and detonated. They would be great for clearing minefields... that and ultra lols.
i like the Aq's idea, but i highly doubt any scout would do this instead of using their preciooouuuuuuus scunt rifle
Problem when this first comes out: 1 out of 10 grenadiers: "WTF??? I had defusal!!" Everyone else: "GJ n00b. You lost our APC" Also if there's a giant minefield with like 10 mines, and they can all set each other off, your chances of running over them all safely drops down to 34.86%
I like mine better though.. where the percentage is related to the load and speed of the vehicle... that way if the situation allows you have some control over whether or not you get past the minefield
uhhh aquillion isn't speaking truth at all. QFlackofT. it'll make no difference at all if it's a grenadier or scout having to manually defuse the mines, it'll be completely impossible to do. it's far easer to spam mines than it is to defuse them, which requires sitting still in a fire fight and aiming at the floor. it's way easier to replace these mines by sprinting around spamming than it is to remove them. if you think that manually defusing mines is reasonable, then play this game yourself. next time there are mines at the next chokepoint stopping you going ahead, make it your mission to defuse them the traditional way. you will horribly fail. and be shot to death. what on earth is this- a mechanic that takes zero teamwork to put down (spamming the mines) but takes brilliant teamwork and co-ordination to counter, the teamwork of informing everyone that mines are in an area (could happen now, but doesn't. see how this is unlikely after the proposed change?) and then arranging a goddamn scout to come along to defuse. this teamwork is not going to happen.
Defusing takes too long, given that 90% of the time required to place mines is loading up at an ammo crate. (Also, damn you engineers, I need ammo!)
That's why I've also said that: 1. Dropping mines should require that you crouch, at least, and possibly more. 2. Concussion grenades should perhaps disable any mines in the area temporarily. The problem is that right now mines are balanced with the idea that you can become totally immune to them... which I think is not good for them overall. Because they're easy to spam everywhere, there's almost no strategy to placing them; because there's little strategy to placing them, we end up with a skill that completely negates them, making the whole thing pointless. They have the ability to add a lot more to the game than they do now. However, I will also add this: I don't usually use a grenadier to tank. And I don't usually have problems with mines, because almost nobody drops minefields against tanks (outside of escort, of course, but the game shouldn't be balanced around escort.) Likewise, outside of escort there are really very few maps with chokepoints that can be easily mined off completely -- yeah, sure, slaughtered has that canyon, but even that's wider than you'd think, and it'll only slow one person. The fact that mines only work once, I think, generally keeps them from being as effective as you say. They can stop one person, sure. One person shouldn't be able to rush in and win the game alone anyway. But even if you just rush into them and take a ton of damage or die, they're much less effective against an organized rush, with people working together. That is what we want to encourage. You can't destroy a turret or wall like that; but mines only work once. As it stands, you can't seriously think that everyone is taking defusal. But they still get past minefields somehow; they'd be able to deal with them even better if defusal was changed to actually encourage cooperation at dealing with minefields, rather than taking one skill and rushing past to leave everyone else behind.
