The one area that drives me nuts is still the APC when loaded with the 3 grenades can take down a base so incredibly fast. The LTs would over heat before the building gets to half health. Its still a viable cheese tactic to load the 3 nades in an apc and go start taking down anything ungarded and it would be dead before anybody could respond. An LT on the other hand the enemy has plenty of time to respond. The changes that were made recently changed this a bit but they are still the most effective early game building killer. This is another cheese to see an Armored Personel Carrier be so powerful , but its different and unexpected so in that way its kinda cool. so <shrug> The mgs, I would say be careful here cause I would think especially now in the day and age of STICKY BOMBS infantry should never be allowed to survive running out in range of a vehicle weapon. Albeit it is more fun to be able to do so. <Shrug>
a agree momo.. though the heat thing has helped a great deal. It would be nice if the grenades were more anti personel than anti structure. the sort of thing that you drive into a base and fire a salvo off into their barracks or VF to kill all the men in there. so if they did say half damage to structures and double to infantry I think it would be more fun to use.
IMO, HE cannon is too far gone to be of any use...a 1v1 tank battle can now last forever, with two well equipped tanks. Also, SMG2 for BE seems too accurate - people are using it on long distances, effectively....
do tanks have too much armour? i mean i'm reluctant to improve the weapons because against bases and infantry because that seems at least fairly balanced. I sometimes feel the problem comes because infantry RPG's pretty much bounce off the later armours, and tank combat takes forever because it takes forever to kill the armour. BUT I don't want to suggest something like "reduce armour on each side of each vehicle" because paper armour is balanced at the momentin the way it is. so it seems to me that the buyable armours are too strong. my suggestion is that the strength of all the researched armours be toned down a bit. for faster, better flowing gameplay.
I disagree. Regenerative armor is currently quite weak. I think it is the weakest armor from the researchable armors. In my opinion reflective, absorbant and regenerative armors are just fine now. Only armor which is too strong is composite armor on heavies. You just can't kill that damn thing when it has nuke on it. It is invincible. It takes ages to dig through the composite armor with new damage modifier value and by that time when you have gone through it your base is leveled out and it is filled with other nuke tanks with composite armor. I don't know about reactive because I have barely used it because of its very high weight and pretty high cost. But in my opinion armors are balanced except composite and on reactive I don't know.
weedy I entirely disagree. with regenerative on my BE heavy I was able to go grenadier and even against three enemy med tanks I was able to just rotate and let one side of armour regrow while another suffered... I was almost invincible. what I'm asking for is not that any perticular armour is degraded. I am asking for a slight degrenadation on EVERY researchable armour. the balance will be retained between the armours but the invincibility of certain tanks will not.
I was thinking about light tanks and medium tanks. Especially NF's LT is very weak with regenerative armor even it is better than plain armor. Same is with AFV because they have either 2 or 3 plates of armor. Medium tanks are stronger but they still go down very fast with a few mortar shots. Heavy tanks are supposed to be a lot more stronger when you have full 6 plates of armor on every side or when you have more weapons on them. I guess you haven't used mortar that much because mortar does three times more damage than rocket or at least twice as much damage so it is a lot more powerfuller than RPG. That's why I almost never use RPG to kill tanks. Only then when they are far away or they are doing their best to dodge my shots and I need somewhat maneuverable shot in order to hit.
RPG does good damage to absorbant. RPG+mortar is usually a 1 hit kill on stock apcs and tanks hot switching and not reloading is usually a good way to kill them
against LT's and provided their chainguns don't fuck you up in less than a second... I agree gren can take one on even on open terrain. once it gets to med tanks grenadiers need significant terrain advantages to do real damage, and when heavies come then even if you're on top of a very heigh building there is little or nothing you can do to stop them rolling around- you can watch as they roll over your mines and keep going. you're more likely to run out of ammo than kill one of them. please don't just say "oh well you suck" because this is what I see all the time. and even if you're not a gren, even if you're another tank it still takes AGES to take down an enemy tank. the combat just gets so slow it gets really stale. frankly I think the game would be more fun if anti tank weapons were actually something tanks feared. everyone knows it's easy enough to kill the people attacking your tanks if you just go engineer. I want to see less games where it gets to the stage where infantry are totally useless and are doing no damage whatsoever, and the tanks are taking so long to kill each other that no progress can be made. you know the games I'm talking about. remember that epic slaughtered game? the tanks were too strong for even the other tanks to really dent them before they could just fall back behind their buddys and heal.
Nuke as a general rule of thumb is a pretty crappy tank vrs tank weapon. It is pretty easy to dodge. If your up close you end up doing almost the same dmg to yourself. DPS sucks. AOE and heat is the only thing it has going for it. The only real effective strat is to use nuke to red nme tanks and another tank to kill. Grens aren't useless against heavy tanks. Place 8 mines in one spot. Why should one grenadier have a chance against a heavy tank? Grens can still do good damage against heavies. They usually only have 1-2 plates over mediums. They shouldn't be able to kill them by themselves. The game shouldn't be fair if one team has teched heavies and the other team has to rely on grens for anti tank.
Rocket sniping would become too unbalanced. Already on open maps it is easy enough to abuse. I feel gren vrs tank is balanced enough as it is. Grenadiers shouldn't be able to drop 4 mines at two diffrent passages and expect to be able to kill any non gren tank that comes rolling through. Get armor detection, use 8 mines and camp your mines. Place mines at strategic points where your tanks are going to be able to finish the kill. Use teamwork, drop 8 mines behind a friendly tank then tell it to retreat and when the nme tank/tanks move up 9 mine them. Making grens more powerfull is just going to make end games even harder to end.
I still advocate (slightly) lower health for the researchable armours. grenadiers being a waste of tickets is just one example. the other main example is that tank combat is very very slow at the moment. and out of context I do believe perhaps a pair of grenadiers should be able to have a fair chance to take down a heavy tank, which is not possible now. that's two of your team going specifically anti tank against just one of theirs which can work as an all rounder, so you're giving more than twice as much man power to it. take in mind that as an infantry class other than gren, it's fairly easy to kill the grens attacking your teams tanks. when it gets to that med tank/hvy tank stage in the game you don't see any of the cool stuff you get at the earlier stages of the game, with infantry fighting along side vehicles. instead even as the specifically anti armour class you don't stand a chance. instead of more spontaneous gameplay like the start of the matches, as soon as two tanks begin fighting they're more likely to go into red heat from firing so much than kill eachother, giving ample time for their team to catch up and prevent any breakthrough. for me it all seems to stem from the current impenetrability of the researchable armours for tanks.
I havent been able to play since rc26 or so, but I will try and playtest again, especially with the revamped balance. I'm definitly going to play before release. I for one am pro longer tank battles. Longer tank battles force you to find a better strategy to work with. If you look at the scripts you would know that in theory there is a quick way to kill any tank the opposing team has. If composite is indeed overpowered then so far that might be the only real problem as it requires you to have railgun to counter it properly, which can be fitted on heavy tanks only, although ranged cannon and HE should work good against it aswell.
About the Grenadier issue, a researchable to increase his RPG's Armor Penetration against tanks (No extra damage vs buildings please) solves the problem perfectly. The issue about making the RPG more powerful is that you make early-game paper tanks completely useless if one RPG can blow them up. With a researchable, you still have the lower-powered RPG in the beginning, but you commander can decide to upgrade them at a later time to give grens better effectiveness against later-game tanks.
it's an option, definately. but doesn't anyone feel that the later game tank battles are too slow? shouldn't battles between tanks be a bit more... explosive?
the one thing that counters composite though is the price, for a med its almost as expensive as an abosrbant heavy. 900+ range. I like long tank battles, I like explosive tank battles... I would imagine that slowness you speak of comes from the lack of resources. Some maps it takes forever to get 900 res even with 3-4 nodes. Can't be so aggressive and explosive when the few tanks are all that team has for a good bit of time.
Are you serious? I can tell for sure you wasn't on that epic Slaughtered match then. There's a demo out of it somewhere here on the forum recorded by Drag. I was on NF and they had medium tanks with HE cannon, upgraded missiles and Composite armor. I used maximum composite armor with HE cannon and upgraded missile launcher on my medium tank and the heat on C4-D4 was so extreme that even a wall of 3-5 medium tanks couldn't last there long with their full armor. They had to all the time back and fort to repair pad or to get in safer position to repair their tanks before going to that same canyon again to keep the pressure on and hold the line. It was pure MAYHEM! There wasn't a single silent moment at that area until in the end of game when BE slowly ran out of money because of more expensive heavy tanks and rail guns. In my opinion that was enough fast. There were at times even 5-7 tanks trying to find a small spot to drive in to fire their weapons and not to block others and yet they didn't wait there too long. Same was going on with BE even they had heavy tanks and I would guess full armor. So on larger tank battles fastening the tank battle would just ruin it because everyone wouldn't stand even a chance to stay still for a moment.
I was there, I was right at the front in a BE heavy with dual railguns. time and time again I watched as I pounded a tank with about 20 railgun shots, then watch it merge into the back and repair even as I fire a dozen more shots into it. as much as that was "madness" I'd rather that tanks got killed instead of having them the ability to just roll back and repair. I think that is too slow. it ended up that both teams could just fall back and repair their tanks while others clogged up the narrow valley we were fighting in, and there was absolutely no spontaneous push or attacks. I mean, at first I was all like "WOW THIS IS COOL", I really was. 20 minutes later I just wanted to quit the server after having been continously fighting in that same position and neither side able to get a kill. as dramatic as it was, nothing but nothing was getting through, it was easy as hell to fall back and repair. the worst part about it was that I remember at one point three grenadiers came and attacked me. I didn't even have to rotate, I just blew them away so quickly and my regen armour had repaired the damage before they even respawned (i could tell because their bodies hadn't yet disappeared) now assessing myself: is this just sour grapes on that match, i mean my team did loose? well I can't honestly know, I don't think it is. I just wish tank combat at that level didn't require you to fire litterally dozens of shells into each other before either of you has a chance of dying. the armour seems too tough. imho.
