The release is nearby and this is going to be the last turn before release (if everything goes as planned) for me to try and balance the vehicle weapons. I'd like to know your opinion: - what has been changed for the worse - what has been left untouched and shouldve been changed - useless weapons - unbalanced etc. Another thing I'd like to mention is that I have been working on a completely different weapon balance (I'll post a complete report on it somewhere down the line) and have been using current balance as a reference, all suggestions on current weapon balance will be taken into account for it, so I can't stress enough that if you care about weapon balance, your input is apreciated.
UGL still not very usefull, especially when you take weight diffrence into account. Even with comp you can't get HEMG/CG/UGL and 2/2/3/3 armor. Standard cannon could use a bit of a heat reduction IMHO. 50 cal DUMG almost never get teched and arn't that usefull. Overall I think the weight needs to be rebalanced a bit. Currently there isn't much incentives on meds to get anything other than HE unless you have comp armor. Unless I know I'm going up against alot of tanks and I'll grab UML or alot of inf and i'll grab med chain gun. But in most games where I'm up against a variety of things I'll just opt for HE and full armor. And when I get comp its UML/HE and full armor. I would like to see med tanks being able to get 2 items ie HE/UML without sacrificing any armor on standard armors and if you get comp then you can ML/MG/Cannon and keep full armor.
It's true that most of the time the entire team wants the commander to research HE, while the comm agrees. However this could simply be because it's always been that way before balancing, and that we are too old to see that other weapons have become usefull as well since that time. From the few times i used missiles i was pleasantly surprised. I could keep shooting, and wouldn't overheat, it was magical. Still got killed though, but i had paper armor, so ... But i must admit i usually want HE, possible because it sounds cool Concerning player weapons i think everything seems pretty balanced.
Anti Infantry MG: Right now I'm doubting the heat changes on the chaingun. I tried it ingame only to find out that it now is hard to overheat a standard tank with the normal chaingun. You can fire all the clips in succession and the heat is only at about 90%. I'm not sure if this is unbalanced regarding the weight and cost of the chaingun and the fact that CG's are considered secondary weapons. But fact is you pretty much can keep it firing until it's vast ammo is depleted. The Medium Chaingun seems to only have one advantage over the 1 Slot Chaingun and that is the range/accuracy? I consider both the .50 caliber MG's fine, they are efficient infantry killers and are better than chainguns in difficult situations + their ammo lasts long. The standard MG is perfect right now. Not totally useless but close to it regarding the price and the weight. If you use two or three it can be more useful but it stays inefficient. Anti vehicle MG: Depleted Uranium HMG has the best damage per second. It is not as accurate as Bio MG. It has bad heat properties but they don't matter on an APC: 1 Clip fires in 10.71 seconds; 1 clip has 120 bullets. One bullet nets 0,75 heat. 1 Clip generates 90 Heat in 10 seconds. Depleted Uranium MG is second in damage per second. It has poor accuracy. 40 heat in 8 seconds (1 clip) Well here the heat matters a bit more because you use a medium or heavy tank that want's to fire a cannon too. It leaves room for a max of 60 heat for the cannon. Lets search for a cannon that can fire 8 seconds under 60 heat. Ranged cannon and railgun. Ranged cannon is stupid to use at ranges where the DUMG is useful and Railgun only fits on heavies. So you risk overheating your tank with it. (of course the engine takes away heat in the process but at least you are stuck in the red markings if you don't got advanced coolant --> Chemistry again, duh) Bio Machine gun third. It has average accuracy. Is costly to research and most comm's don't dare too because every dim whit will shout at him for not researching HE aka the noob cannon. Other than that I think it's quite balanced, the heat value is very good, which makes it a good secondary weapons (can't cramp up the heat of the weapon because it is designed so that you HAVE to run away) HE MG comes fourth in damage per second. It is the most accurate one. And has the most damage per clip (read: clip) of the 2 slotters. It generates 30 heat in 15 seconds. Which is a bad joke, even fission in the red markings and driving full speed can take that heat away. It is a great weapon for cooling down your tank and still ditching out serious amounts of damage over long ranges. You just drive away, damage the enemy tank and win the heat battle. Let alone that it has area damage so you might even kill infantry with it and you of course can hit armor plates you're opponent turned away from you. Plasma MG (duh) is worst in terms of damage and has average accuracy (like bio) Very useful for overheating your tank so you can dump it into a pond of water on mvalley. Overheats enemy tanks very nicely too, but you're likely not to see the effects of your doing. Is a pure team weapon that requires (duh) teamwork and dedication (long research time, its not in the chemistry branch O.O) Regarding these 5 weapons, HE is "the useful" MG followed by Bio MG which is "acceptable" followed by the DUHMG and the Plasma MG which you can only put on an apc that will die without (or with?) teamwork. Then comes the infamous DUMG, often nerfed and not in use anymore. (It lacks HE area damage, it needs special properties like armor penetration) There are no alternatives (see rant) Warning: highly subjective rant Which leads me to the point that the whole system including the research tree is limited. There is NO way to do big positive changes without dizzy's complete revamp of the system. Chemistry is filled with fast to get goodies that support big tank assaults and the aggressive gameplay that is needed for the classic map landgrab. Turtle high tech tactics are insanely hard to pull off without map control. (Yes I hear you HSM, your turret tactics work great, but you need a team that listens to you) No map control, no resources no high tech. In other words everyone is bound to get some cheap stuff first, to secure his position. The cheap stuff is biology and most of the time chemistry. No wonder the HMG's are not used much I say. But THAT is no reason to make this particular weapon any better or any worse right now. Warning: End of rant Cannons: Balanced as good as humanly possible (see rant). Don't touch, it will break apart in a bajillion pieces. Ranged cannon has best lasting power, is very good against buildings, is an cheap alternative to artillery, you don't need ammo or an engineer for it to work. But it's damage per second are just as good as one standard cannon (but it has less heat issues, none actually) Think of it as the "upgraded cannon" for the destruction of vehicles and buildings from afar. As soon as the enemy gets close run away. It's not an option for "landgrab" or "assaults" HE Cannon Other than plasma cannon this is the shittiest cannon there is. Damage per second is horrible, below standard cannon. You run out of ammo fast, it is inaccurate at medium to long ranges, it's hard to fire while moving. Man what a shitty cannon. WAIT shit, I made something wrong... oh yea... area damage, no weakness against any armor, it's in chemistry, you can use bugs to hit a tank's weak spot with it, it has a shiny big explosion, you can hunt infantry with it. Plasma Cannon : I have no fricking idea, the numbers are still shitty, the heating of the enemy makes it useful for teamwork tactics above the usual "OMG GET TANKS STAY TOGETHER KILL". And I haven't tried it (how would I, comm at the pug and research plasma instead of HE LOL) On one on one tank battles (in low player tank wars) it's da bomb, you overheat the enemy, he has lost if you have another good weapon and are not overheated yourself. Rail Gun Well, I "think" it has been used on the epic slaughtered match last PUG. BE got it. BE got wiped by medium NF HE tanks. (used pack strategy; Neither of the two NF comms, the later being me researched heavies) Railgun against absorbant (chemistry!) = Railgun loses. Railgun against reactive : Railgun loses. Other than that it's fine if the tank driver can hit with it. If it wasn't so heavy it would be a great weapon to use in conjunction with other damage dealers, like missiles (against absorbant) or MG's. So it's only use is on composite Railgun UML heavy tanks, which cost a lot to research and build. It's use is just too limited even if it "is" the best cannon (it has second to non area of effect) Missiles: Upgraded Missile Launcher Very useful, I think it's one of the few counters against swarming absorbant tanks. Don't change, else everything breaks apart again. (and its in Chemistry!) Nukes: Can be game enders, a bit off on flag maps from time to time. Empires needs this weapon, seriously. I only have 1 suggestion: A tiny bit less heat to target against vehicles. All the other missiles: (are fine) Well duh, funny stuff. But wait, it's in the electrical path... uh electrical is turrets. Uh where is the research again? Seriously, guided missiles could be da bomb but you need infantry or another tank to guard you while you fire from a distance. If the enemy rushes you, you are usually done for. Don't change, it's fine, just has to be used by teams. Salvos are great stuff, of course have the best damage per second which would make it useful for fast tanks on open maps to skirmish. But eh who has time to research it when you have to rush for HE. (electrical has no armor you can use, seriously Reactive armor is completely fubar, but not the topic...) Artillery Cannons I see no need for change. All have their uses. HE artillery cannon of course is the most devastating and you get it for free every game. (Chemistry!) Edit: Grenade Launchers 3x standard grenade launcher is better than 1 upgraded + 1 standard grenade launcher damagewise but the latter has much better heat properties, less weight, reload time, yatta yatta. I say up the weight of the standard grenade launcher to 40. I agree, mediums + full armor + HE are the best. Any variety is hampered by the weight system and the fact that HE is good against, vehicle, infantry and buildings while for example the UML is only (really) good against absorbant tanks and big buildings. On the other hand if you enable the tanks to carry all weapons again then the teamwork aspect is down the drain again. I mean the usual LT has 2 plates on all sides. The "usual" med tank that wants to take a variety of weapons has a max of 3 plates. I don't think it would hurt if he can take 2 weapons + full normal armor. Composite tanks of course could very well be allrounders because it already takes long to get composite and it IS expensive (yet not invulnerable)
Okay after a discussion with simon: Standard cannon heat "might" be lowered a bit again to speed up early-midgame tank battles (both teams have armor/engine, but not better tanks yet) We discussed a heat of 12. Right now standard cannon even overheats advanced coolant engine very fast. The other cannons (or HE as "the other cannon") is still better than standard cannon because of it's higher speed, the area damage, the heat, chemistry, etc.
please no! standard cannons are still used over and over again in matches and their reduction of power is a bloody good thing, which has made tank battles and teching up a much more enjoyable thing to do. if the weapon that you get for FREE at the start of the game can't do LOADS of damage to the expensive researched armours, then that's a good thing. very good. tells you that you need to tech up instead of just using light tanks ever match like it used to be. how can you not all remember when the starting vehicles were all you needed? standard cannon is fine. great even. LT's with cannons are still used over and over proving that they are not too weak, other than the speeding up of mid game AFV vs LT fights, there seems no benefit. ---------------------------- chaingun (which is free also) should have it's heat put back. it's a total beast, able to kill you in its first three shots, and now the heat is really low it can just keep firing over and over. It's not been an uncommon sight for me to see it gun down three people in less than a second emerging from the barracks or whatever. this is from experience: no infantry or grenadier stands a chance against the chaingun. really should be changed back to where even though it was a beast it created at least a bit of heat. ------------- nukes: to be honest I would increase this things damage against vehicles and structures... once you fire one you're pretty much a beached whale, and especially given the price and time of research it's far more effective for commanders to research HE at the moment. their only saving grace is that they kill men women and children in a 5 mile radius, which given the cost of them (both in res and in sacrifice of weight etc on your tank) seems fair. picture it like this: should a heavy tank with only a nuke be able to be able to beat a medium with HE? I say it should. the nuke is the HE's big brother in terms that it's an all rounder, but the HE is better in DPS (including time taken to cool down after firing each shot from nuke) as well as costing a hell of a lot less to have in the field. --------------------------------- personally: this one isn't with as much logic but more of a personal feeling: I wish HE cannons were more expensive. sure sure they are perfectly balanced in combat terms, but having one HE cannon is a lot better than having two missile launchers or a missile launcher and sml cannon, including the fact that it's cheaper. I wish having one ML and one small cannon could be a cheaper option than just chucking an HE on your tank. ------------------------------------------- just something for discussion: it seems clear to me that at the moment the best tanks are ones with one weapon and full armour. they won't overheat so they can keep firing even when under attack, and they are a lot lot stronger than their multiweaponed counterparts. is this good?
Uh, wrong. Things that will prevent it from going back to 1.071 lt/arty whoring. Cost of Med tanks. Damage reduction on buildings. Going from 16 down to 12 or 13 is a nice increase but your still going to need a decent engine to spam this. Weight on LTs/AFVs. You can't get ML/Cannon/CG and 2/2/2/2 armor unless you have comp. So if you do take cannon/ml which is a somewhat effective tanking strat you are very vulnerable to infantry whereas with HE you are effective against buildings due to high DMG per hit, infantry due to blast and tanks due to dmg explosion blah blah blah. No more straight teching arty for pwnage. The entire point of sticking with LTs/AFV was straight teching arty. Arty is not that good. Your much better off getting really good mediums first wereas in 1.071 all you had to do later as lt/afv was kill arties/protect your own. Obv they are used over and over. What else are people going to use? Once armor is teched tank battles are insanely slow untill you get HE. Regen APCs can boot around your base with no hope of you killing them because either you red yourself or you chase and get to shoot very little. I've just started looking into this but I'm pretty sure straight teching absorbant then HE MG is going to be much more effective than using AFV/LT. You get a spawn. Dmg to buildings is negliable on LTs/AFVs anyway. Tech time is around the same. Although currently weight is a bit of an issue you can't get CG/HEMG/GL without sacrificing the 2/2/2/2 armor. Essentially. You go ABS HEMG Coolant MED HE. HEMG/UML are one of the few things I'll give up armor for on a tank depending on the situation so its not like the tech was a waste. Pretty much this tech gives up the trade off between an APC and AFV/LT. From my initial testing it is at least just as fast killing a tank with HEMG as with standard cannon.
Make the nuke not firing that fast. I had tank-battles where someone with a nuke would shoot one almost right after the first one. Maybe give it only 1 nuke per clip but 6 clips so you need to reload after shooting one. If it wont be like this, you shouldnt be able to shoot another nuke untill your heat reached 0%!
As Drag stated in my opinion Chain Gun is just way too overpowerful now. You can blast away the freaking whole clip to infantry in front of you now and they get killed within very short time. In my opinion the heat should be higher than it is currently but lower than it used to be before RC 28. Also I agree with Drag about Medium Chain Gun. It weights the same as the smaller chain gun and I haven't seen much difference between these two. And in my opinion Standard Cannon could use a slight downgrade in the heat. It used to be 12 but that's just freaking overpowerness to maximum. Current 16 is ok now but I think it would be better if it was 15 or 14. Maybe 15 is better. No need to do massive leaps and then break the balance again. Also Rail Guns aren't used so often but when people research them, they are very good against every armor except absorbant because of a bug. (Or has it been fixed yet?) Useless weapons? Upgraded Grenade Launcher. It doesn't have much advantages upon normal one. Oh yeah. One more thing. Ranged Cannon. Take a look into it's damage and clip size, now take a look to HE Cannon's damage and clip size. In my opinion Ranged Cannon should have around 30-25 shells in clip instead of 40. That's massive amount compered to its damage which is very near HE's damage. (Even I won't like at this change because then it will lose its advantage. :p ) But in the other hand it is extremely rarely researched. I think I have only seen it on money and at that time it has been researched for artillery, not for any tanks. So it could use a little bit smaller clip (even I won't like it and even it is after long research times and whatever else).
If chain gun gets nerfed I would like to see projective physics moved to Mech engineering. Simple step that would make 50 cal more viable. Standard cannons heat isn't the only thing that has rendered LTs/AFVs less effective I think 13 is a good place to start. It is only 3 less heat, what 15 maybe 20% more shots? Edit: I'm just going to add this because I know I'm going to have to later. Lets say a stock LT can take away 25% of a building with cannon before redding (very generous). And lets say 3 less heat lets the LT shoot 20% more. That only brings the total damage up to 30%. Maybe my math sucks but I have to finish an essay due in 20 min peace.
I give it to you simon that LT's against buildings or anything at the moment really suck. what I'm currently thinking about is that LT's are number one infantry killer, able to kill even grenadiers without really taking damage. If the chaingun went back to the heat whore it was then I think I could accept and enjoy the reduced heat from the small cannon.
If I have cover ie a barracks I can kill a stock light tank alot more often then I die from it. With an armory I almost never lose assuming its one on one. Likewise if I'm up against someone who is good at gren I will almost always die attacking a barracks and even more often if there is an armory. Mortar switch rpg dead. Even once armor is teched grens still rip into LTs and AFVs pretty quickly. I don't even see CG as being all that powerfull. It is good for killing infantry but you all make it out to be some godly point click and they die type thing. Sometimes you get lucky and get a fast kill sometimes it can take a while especially if they have cover.
I'd not say Chaingun is "godly", the heat is just out of whack compared to... for example the medium chaingun (2slots = more room, less heat, "better?") Also note that it is a starting tech, why not leave it's heating flaw as a production error which the medium chaingun doesn't/shouldn't have. I mean a miniature gun firing bullets this fast must overheat more than one with more room. The medium chain is more accurate, that seems to be it's only advantage. I'd not call railgun "good against every armor" in fact every armor with a negative speed modifier is really good against Railgun. Thus reactive and absorbant both render railgun close to useless (before RC 28 it took 55 shots of railgun to take down 6 plates of absorbant; now it should be something around 40-45 shots to take 6 plates down. And then you got only 1 side of the tank armor free) Upgraded grenade launcher, are you sure you are up to date weedy? Standard grenade launcher got nerfed into heat oblivion and upgraded grenade launcher was made worthwhile and fast shooting. Edit: Grenade launcher, 80 dmg every 3 seconds. Upgraded Grenade launcher 110 dmg every 2 seconds. 1100 dmg in 20 seconds compared to 800 dmg in 30 seconds. Of course if you use 3 grenade launchers you boost it up to 2400 in 30 seconds + an overheated apc before firing the last shot. Ranged Cannon: Are you insane Weedy? Take away the one thing that remotely makes me think ranged cannon is not utterly useless? It has huge amounts of ammo which is good because it stays behind the line and whacks tanks and buildings (which is really hard enough). Atleast let it have it's full load of ammo. Note that it's "reload time", meaning the time it takes to reload an extended range shell (from armory or box) is REALLY long, if you ever fire all your 40 shells you have to wait good 2 minutes before your tank is stocked again.
UGL takes up alot of weight as well. Its weight should be the same as GL. Reload time should be less. Right now 2x GL = 60 weight UGL = 50. There is no point teching UGL. Just research a engine and you get all those bennefits of an engine + you can GL spam.
Ok, I'm not going to comment on every single point mentioned here, but a lot of it I'm hoping the new balance will fix, or will eventually (after testing) fix. The weapon choice concerning weight restriction is more versatile, scaling up slots is done differently and also the research items are different, so that should fix a few of the other problems mentioned in here. I'm not too sure what to think of the chaingun right now, its supposed to be a med tank gun, and I know its not nearly as good as .50 cal, even with the heat, so I'll try and fix my pc and try it out for myself before changing it back. Things I've noted for a probable change: DUMG, Plasma, UGL, Nuke. The current weapons will probably still be used for release, so expect atleast before 2.0 a few changes in the mentioned weapons, but everything that I'm not going to change for current balance is noted for the revamped balance.
Drag don't get angry now but here's some fact for you: Code: "Ranged Cannon" { "Name" "Ranged Cannon" //name given when selecting weapons "HUD Name" "Ranged CN" //name displayed in the weapon area of the vehicle HUD "Description" "A small caliber cannon that fires tank shells. Its barrel is enhanced for farther distances." //description given when selecting weapons "Icon" "vehicles/gui/weapons/cn_med" //icon drawn in the GUI "HUD Icon" "vehicles/gui/weapons/cn" "Size" "2" //number of slots required when selecting weapons "Type" "1" //0=machine gun, 1=tank cannon, 2=artillery cannon, 3=missile launcher, 4=grenade launcher, 5=aircraft bomb bay "Cost" "20" "Team" "ALL" //team that can use this "NF" or "IMP" "Research" "Extended Range Cannon" //name of research item that must be researched before using "Sound Firing" "Vehicle_CN.Fire" "Sound Impact" "Vehicle_CN.Impact" "Sound Reloading" "" "Ammo Type" "0" //for mguns only, 0 = nonarmor penetrating (no effect on armored vehicles), 1 = armor penetrating (hurts armored vehicles) "Damage" "60" //damage done by projectile "Speed" "3000" //speed of projectile "Gravity" "0.1" //effects of gravity on the projectile, only for projectiles "Heat" "14" //heat added per shot fired (100 total heat added to vehicle puts it in an overheated status). "Weight" "70" //weight in terms of effects on engine and weight restrictions for chassis "Cycle Time" "1.5" //time between shots (all weapons other than MGs have limits of 0.1 as lowest) "Clip Size" "40" //ammo loaded per reloads "Total Ammo Clips" "0" //max ammo clips carried (0 is the same as not using clips) "Reload Time" "2.0" //time to load one clip "Projectile Spread" "0" //only applicable to machine guns at the moment "Heat To Target" "1" //heat added to target on hit (a small amount of heat is also added to the target based on damage, this is defined within the armor script) "Inertia" "3" //actually reverse to inertia, only applicable to cannons, artillery cannons, and grenades; affects how the speed of the vehicle affects the momentum of the projectile (higher inertia = vehicle speed will affect the trajectory of the projectile possibly causing it to veer off from a straight line or shoot farther or shorter) "Explosion Radius" "300" //radius of damage sphere to hurt surrounding entities "Explosion Force" "100" //force of explosion } "High Explosive Cannon" { "Name" "High Explosive Cannon" //name given when selecting weapons "HUD Name" "HE CN" //name displayed in the weapon area of the vehicle HUD "Description" "This cannon has its explosive compound upgraded for a stronger explosion upon impact." //description given when selecting weapons "Icon" "vehicles/gui/weapons/cn_med" //icon drawn in the GUI "HUD Icon" "vehicles/gui/weapons/cn" "Size" "2" //number of slots required when selecting weapons "Type" "1" //0=machine gun, 1=tank cannon, 2=artillery cannon, 3=missile launcher, 4=grenade launcher, 5=aircraft bomb bay "Cost" "25" "Team" "ALL" //team that can use this "NF" or "IMP" "Research" "Explosive Shells" //name of research item that must be researched before using "Sound Firing" "Vehicle_HECN.Fire" "Sound Impact" "Vehicle_HECN.Impact" "Sound Reloading" "" "Ammo Type" "0" //for mguns only, 0 = nonarmor penetrating (no effect on armored vehicles), 1 = armor penetrating (hurts armored vehicles) "Damage" "70" //damage done by projectile "Speed" "3200" //speed of projectile "Gravity" "0.4" //effects of gravity on the projectile, only for projectiles "Heat" "16" //heat added per shot fired (100 total heat added to vehicle puts it in an overheated status). "Weight" "70" //weight in terms of effects on engine and weight restrictions for chassis "Cycle Time" "2.0" //time between shots (all weapons other than MGs have limits of 0.1 as lowest) "Clip Size" "24" //ammo loaded per reloads "Total Ammo Clips" "0" //max ammo clips carried (0 is the same as not using clips) "Reload Time" "2.0" //time to load one clip "Projectile Spread" "1" //only applicable to machine guns at the moment "Heat To Target" "1.6" //heat added to target on hit (a small amount of heat is also added to the target based on damage, this is defined within the armor script) "Inertia" "2" //actually reverse to inertia, only applicable to cannons, artillery cannons, and grenades; affects how the speed of the vehicle affects the momentum of the projectile (higher inertia = vehicle speed will affect the trajectory of the projectile possibly causing it to veer off from a straight line or shoot farther or shorter) "Explosion Radius" "500" //radius of damage sphere to hurt surrounding entities "Explosion Force" "200" //force of explosion There're all kinds of things but take a look to cycle time, reload time, ammunation count, damage, heat, weight and cost. Ranged cannon has shorter cycle time, its reloading time is same as on HE, it has more ammunation than HE, it does almost same damage as HE even more than Railgun, it produces less heat, it weights the same and it costs less. So in my opinion it is now a lot powerfuller than it used to be with its slow cycle time. If I calculated right now (overheating not included) Ranged Cannon is now even more powerful than HE cannon. Ranged Cannon: Cycle time * Whole clip <=> 1,5s * 40ammo = 60s per whole clip. Whole clip * damage done per one shell <=> 40ammo * 60 damage = 2400 damage per whole clip. Damage done by whole clip / Time spent to use whole clip <=> 2400dam./clip / 60s/clip = 40dam./s That means 40 damage within one second when overheating doesn't count and in my opinion HE will overheat sooner than RG Cannon AND... High Explosive Cannon: Cycle time * Whole clip <=> 2,0s * 24ammo = 48s per whole clip. Whole clip * damage done per one shell <=> 24ammo * 70 damage = 1680 damage per whole clip. Damage done by whole clip / Time spent to use whole clip <=> 1680dam./clip / 48s/clip = 35dam./s ... HE Cannon does less damage within one second than RG cannon. The damage is 35 per single second. Even it shoots its whole clip quicker than RG Cannon and it delivers 10 more damage per single shell than RG Cannon, still RG Cannon gives more damage overall than HE cannon. Or more simpler way to tell it. Damage / cycle time = 60dam./1,5s = 40dam./s and for HE 70dam./2.0s = 35dam./s.
does the fact that the area that the HE cannon covers (2500x pie) is two and a half times as big as that that the range cannon does (900x pie) count for nothing? 9/10 times commanders will choose the weapon with the far greater efficiency vs infantry, bases, groups of turrets and ease of use. IE: HE cannon. I think it's entirely fair at the moment. in terms of ability: HE should equal the ability of the Ranged cannon. and currently it does.
I like the ranged cannon. I found out recently it's actually the Don of cannons for me, because I like to be able to hit at a further range before closing in. Has the cannon been pimped recently because it's in a tech tree that's not often researched? If it is then fine, if it's in chem like all the rest, mebbe it does need a nerf.
I didn't get angry, just consternated by the lack of sense. Thanks for the calculations, my spreadsheet gave me the same results already. Taken out of the scripts: Ranged Cannon: "Inertia" "3" High Explosive Cannon: "Inertia" "2" Try shooting the Ranged Cannon while you are moving, good luck with hitting anything but a NF rax over any distance. Also I completely agree with Sandbag about the explosion radius+force being a mayor advantage of HE Cannon, which might be one of the reason the HE cannon gets nerfs and still is the most liked cannon. Also the fact that reloading the ranged cannon takes ages remains.
