It's public - Empires: Darkest Dawn

Actually, this was how I did it in the previous pug. As you know, to take territory, you had to be the attacking side.

If we were the attacking side, pubbers got priority over clanners. I once fielded a team with 18 pubbers in it and just 5 clanners + myself. We won that.

If we were the defending side, clanners got priority over pubbers. I once fielded a team with 16 clanners in it and just 7 pubbers + myself. We won that marginally.

I still feel it rich that someone from BSID is commenting on stacking though. But regardless, I would still follow what I did there. Although in theory if your balance system works, I wouldn't get that opportunity. And regardless, if you want more competition, throw BSID on one side, EPIC on the other, limit the percentage of clanners you may field per game, and it'll work fine. As for JPL/CW, CW can go with EPIC, JPL with BSID.

If you did that, and limited the percentage of clanners allowed to be fielded - say 40% of a team? It would prevent any internal issues within the teams, keep a high level of play without leaving out the pubbers, etc.

Any why would Recon have a vendetta for you guys shotting yourselves in the foot? Recon did his job as an admin, you guys booted him, and lost the only "supporter" you had. Your problem, not his. He plays empires that rarely that it isn't an issue for him, but you guys have certainly felt the after effects of losing the only guy that actually didn't want you punished.

But yes, you are totally right about HSM. Cpatton however...

EDIT: And @ Ikalx: Actually, I spent ages making plans for the team, even for when I was on holiday, I drew up a huge plan for the team to follow in my absence. And as much as HSM is a douche, I know for a fact he also put a fair amount of time into that as well. It's nothing to do with king of the castle type thing, because the best way to prove that is by having your team win. Which completely contradicts what you said. It doesn't matter if people don't agree with it, because if you win, then they'll see your side afterwards. If you lose, you'll be voted out, and no longer trusted with it. People can find it hard to trust me all they like, that's irrelevant provided people do as instructed.

 

im a clanner

 

Me too.
Once again.

 

For a leader you need someone who knows strategy and can organise people, regardless of clan affiliation. Drama is what ruined the last pug, when people became more obsessed with winning than having fair and fun games the fun goes too. Taking the game seriously is not a problem, but taking it too seriously is a very big problem. This is just a game, the goal is not to win but to have fun and to generate the largest amount of fun for the most people.
The only problem with relative unknowns is that their skill level is unknown, but the lack of grudges and issues that they bring to the table is a point in their favour not a detraction.

The drama makes things more unpleasant, the competition means that instead of being able to reach an acceptable compromise instead you have people trying to keep whatever advantages they have. Sportsmanship does seem to be a lacking quantity among Empires players, just because you are trying to win des not mean you have to be a dick about it and sadly when you are talking about players who really want to win you refer to people in the latter category. Drama only makes things more fun for people who like to troll, people who want to play fun games with skilled people while working towards an overall goal will find it gets boring very quickly. That was part of what turned me off the PUG, there was a huge amount of drama and trolling, the apex of which has to be Con7con and the 'stolen' plans.

As for laid back people I do not recall either buttery or KT expressing any interest in leading the PUG or having any involvement in it at all.

On the BE team it was just whoever wanted to be there was there, no clan/pubber quotas just players joining in a first come first served manner.

Considering Epic's record is hardly clean in this regard throwing clan related aspersions around will not do anything but create more flames.
Let people join the sides that they want to join and we can see how things go. The clans will probably divide themselves up among teams by themselves.

Well I know that I, along with several others participated in the planning process on BE and that we created the plans together.

 

it wasnt obsession with winning, it was obsession of making excuses and make bullshit posts after each damn game saying NF only won due to their mk2's... which ofc was nearly never used and instead arty/apc's were used (which were way more powerfull back then)...
The flamefests that occured due to this ignited hate towards the enemy and fueled the desire to play. (i dont support the reason it happend, but i do support what it created, which imo made it far more fun)
and then we had this incident of HSM announcing that his team wouldnt play untill a new patch of empires was made... which took a half year to get...
Resulting ofcourse in that NF tried to make BE revolt against their leader in order to have any games at all, since the pug would undoubtly be forgotten/canceled by the time a patch arrive.

and about the stolen plans thingie...
i was switched to BE when it happend... and the team surely deserved it.
but none the less i returned to NF a few games later due to retardation of the strategists...
after listening to them talk i just wanted to strangle them all...
(well they had perhaps 1 or 2 with a brain... but the other 90% were clueless morons)

 

I miss the pug.

 

Drama ruined the PUG, the amount of trolling made it unfun and BE had some pretty severe disadvantages and you cannot plan around disadvantages when you have no strengths to use. The main OPness of the LT MKII was that LTs were OP and this just made them more powerful, this gave NF the early game vehicle supremacy and with the armour buffs made infantry ineffective against vehicles. At that point the range of strategies available to you become very limited and are very situational and map based with no guarentee that the oppenent cannot turn it against you.

No I am saying that the object of this is fun, not victory and when you start screwing over other people for victory you have crossed a line that should not be crossed. Winning is fun but it is more fun to be playing a fun game than to win, fun is not a zero-sum commodity but a plus sum one and surely we should try to maximise the amount of fun available.
The issue with the plans was just bullshit, no two ways about it, Con appeared in our chat and kept spamming the link to the plans despite being removed twice and being told that we did not want them. Our plans were made previously and were left unchanged and implemented during the match. When this issue was raised to you before the match you said that you would deal with Con and remove him from the pug, not only did this fail to happen but you turned around and supported his actions. You also failed to name the 3 guys in BE who had supposedly asked for the plans. The pug was supposed to be a chance for newer players to experience organised empires matches, not for metagaming in this fashion. The DD meta game is a consentual metagame wherein both sides have agreed to do this, you 'meta game' was not consentual as the teams were supposed to be organisational units and nothing more. Can you play like that? Yes, you can however it is not fun for the majority of Empires players who just want to play good fun organised matches which is what I mean by fun before competition.

However a large number of people left the BE team because of the behaviour of both the NF team and the organiser, which is why in the end BE just quit rather than playing an entire season through.

Epics record is hardly spotless in terms of stacking, there are the multiple posts that Patton has made about the subject on the G4TC forums and there are several announcements in your steam group about your clan's stacking, hardly a spotless record.
Well BSID and EPIC will be in the minority if this gets a large number of pubbers signing up, however non board related metagaming is more likely to discourage rather than encourage pubbers to join.

No it is not.

 

Either way, the pug drama related discussion can end here, that's not what this thread is about.

I noticed a flaw in the balancing, as did a few other people.

It only balances you if you play on that server. So you assume your server will always be populated the day you launch this, which I doubt. So do you have a way around that?

 

i love the "epic stack" on district picture which has me and sodaen topscoring BE (with me having the most score on the whole server)... +the fact that the "poor BE team" won the round.

or the 2 insurrection ones which was taken when the round ended with 27nf, 16be (all dead except one due to no rax) and 14 spectators (ragequit, yayzor)

or the the internet is 4 porn one without any form of info about the enemy team/spec... +the fact the so called "epic stack team" also lost

the pathetic pictures he posted brought a smile to my face :D

 

We will never side with brenodi scum D:

 

In that case there is no need to reply to this post.

No, there was no workaround that could not have been countered fairly easily by NF. You swapping sides would have only helped BE because you would no longer be able to help NF.

I will be sure to ask RKB next time I see him. I do believe that it is not the winning that counts, that is if it is not fun to play regardless of winning why play at all? This is a game and for me the goal is to have fun not to win. In real life everyone's victory conditions are different so it is impossible to judge who has won or lost by any objective measure.

The BE team left first, BE was losing people before it started losing leadership. People just had less incentive to play as it was quite plain that the game was stacked against us.

The issue of stacking is a good example of moving the goalposts, a stack which FN got a 2 week ban for got reclassified as not actionable.

How so? Some of the plans changed quite a bit following discussion, for example doing a speed upgrade start was not HSM's idea but formed a large part of future plans.

 

Remind me where all this arguing came from about me and stolen plans as i cannot be bothered to look through all the text and need some more lols.

 

It would be too much rape if we joined up with BSID.. But right before we win the server would magically crash somehow.

 

.... Please. Do it. IF you guys actually think you could work together, that would be the best fucking thing ever for us to go against.

Although in an ideal world, that would be done in a scrim, not this.

 

your gay

 

There is also the fact epic is far superiour to any bsid + jpl nonsense.

*Initiate clan flaming*

 

It may be a fact, but that doesn't mean its true.

 

Actually, you weren't part of the team so how could you know?

Basically, I went into each team meeting with an idea of what I wanted to see, then people gave there input. By the end of meeting, we decided what would be the strategy,and then I announced that was the strategy we were using.

We all learned a lot actually, and I got to see a lot of newbies become excellent players. Lots of fun until the politics side-tracked it for me.

 

I will agree with you about the newbies though. There are so many guys I'd never heard of at that point, who I now consider to be really quite skilled players. And a lot of them weren't like that at the start of the pug.

As for our strategy meetings, they sound fairly similar to yours. Although I decided on what would happen finally, but I took input from the likes of Drag, Zeke, Valiant, Scardybob, Cpatton (I know, worrying.)etc.

And I spoke to a lot of people on your side. So unlike most people here, I actually know what I'm talking about.