Future of the scout and what I think some people misunderstand.

Lets not do TF2, Nor CS... the first one is a rush game without strategy, that has teamplay in it due to its construction and setup making you AUTOMATICALLY play together in small teams, (awesomeness etc, but its still "just" a rushgame)

counter strike on the other hand is a team based game that is so much fail, that it falls back into a rushgame, unless for hardcore coordinated clans who play it as it should be played intended by the makers

empires does not want to be a rush game, and it isn't a rush game... its something different, its more like natural selection and savage at the moment, but i believe it needs to go a new path, something more team based, and squad based, it needs to go more RTS, and dump most of the FPS facets that were designed in the early games with single player in mind... a thing the makers of natural selection 2 are trying to incorporated in there game at this moment with there extensive squad support for marines, and there hierarchy for the aliens... but there are other and simpler ways to do it

not saying we need to go make drastic changes of how we walk and see the world as units, but how we interact with others in the server, how orders are given, how objectives are fulfilled, and how the envoirement interacts with the units

 

Thats seriously, completly wrong. Empires is a rush game.
Every clan plays it as a rush game.
You lose if you dont rush.

I will quote sonecha here: "hey in 2.2 the cv rush is only one minute delayed"

 

Well, maybe it currently is... but it shouldn't be, this game was created with strategy in mind, a mindless rush should not win the game and as far as i know it really does not at this point, all rushes are coordinated quite well for a game of this type its standards

a rushgame is basically a game that can be won without communicating with the other guys, and just play on yourself and head over to the other side of the map to kick enemy butt

in empires this is possible, but only if the other team is not putting up a proper resistance, if the commander has more leading ability then a decapitated chicken running around in the cv looking for its head and while doing so short circuiting the operating panels that are allegedly inside of the cv, he should be able to handle a full team rush on his base quite well with only half of his team cooperating in his base with him at that moment, while the other team goes for the enemy commander while having few or no resistance

in a decent rushgame, you as 1 skilled heavy player with medic might be able to hold off some of the other guys, but if your outnumbered, then you are outnumbered and you better keep holding that point until your fellow players get there

 

Why do you think empires shouldnt be a rush game, maybee
there are people like me that think empires should be a rush
game. Where is the law that tells me that a rush game is wrong.

I like fast games and a good rush always needs cordination.
If the enemy team isnt able to keep 2 heavys away from there
cv they are less organised, way behind in research or just plain bad.

Whats wrong with that the better team wins the game?

Ive never seen one or two heavys win the game if the other team isnt really stupid.

 

Well there is nothing wrong with 'better team wins' but there is something wrong with 'better two players in heavies win'.

With regard to the actual speed of the game it should be whatever works, if you can find a way to make fast placed gameplay work and be fun for everyone, go with it. If not, try something else.

 

empires in its current form is not a rushgame, team fortress is a rushgame, each map is a form of tunnel with capture points, and sometimes a few alternate routes, but in basic they are tunnels with 1 exit and 1 entrance

you start at ether the exit or the entrance, and rush to the other side killing everything thats not in your team while you rush, and prevent the other team to rush on your side

you die? /repeat


this isnt the fact in empires, at all... if the devs want to make it a rush game then i suggest you start making rush maps, and speed up the game play considerably

on a side note, escort is as close as empires gets to a rush map, but it still is far from a rushgame since only 1 side rushes and other differences i don't really care to put more effort into this...

my forgiveness if i was unclear at the start, but i hope i explained some vague parts better now, my apologizes

 

Er, in empires you win by aggressively contesting the map, you can't win by being defensive and the only defence is a good offence.

Empires revolves around aggression, and speed, attack faster and harder than your enemy to win.

Empires is extremely rush oriented.

 

Then why is there so much to research? If it was all about rushing you only need tons of APCs and LTs.

 

It is obvious you never played under HSM solokiller.

His Plan B every single game: If comm rush fails and he don't get enough ground in the first 5 mins of the game, order every single player back to base to build standard AFVs/LTs.

HSM then leads charge to enemy base to go straight for the enemy comm, the CV takes the first load of any ML turret fire and sets off any mines in the way while running over any waiting grenadiers, so the convoy behind him gets through with maximum strength.

Team are instructed (read: screamed at) to ignore everything else except the enemy comm, and not to stop for anything. If the enemy CV runs when he sees the 12 tanks or so coming over the hill en masse, HSM uses his CV to chase him and block him until the convoy arrives.

There is very little chance of defending this move with the average pub team, even when the convoy is all standard armor/engine tanks, and even when you get an early warning.

If you try and block with walls they will be ripped down quickly and you will buy little time. If you turret farm, the rockets will mainly hit the CV and any MLs fired at the convoy will kill one tank if you are lucky, but will barely scratch the surface of the mob. Minefields are too long to set up at such short notice, but the leading CV will detonate any stray mines in the way.

Counter-spamming tanks is your only hope, but it takes far too long to organise a team (unless you scream like HSM of course), and even if you do, chances are you don't have enough res for the numbers because you have been spending it on sensible things like a radar, forward barracks, turrets etc. And unless you can physically block them with tanks, they will ignore you and drive on to the comm, leaving you to potshot at the convoy while chasing.

This tactic is a beauty to behold, and all it requires is a team who are scared enough of the voice of HSM in full rage mode to go along with his evil plans. I have seen it fail very few times, it is one of the most reliable tactics available because it is so hard to defend against in the early game. The only reason it is not used more, is that most commanders do not have as much... "Persuasion" as Headshotmaster. Or the balls to risk the entire game 5 minutes in on a seemingly crazy rush tactic.

Empires is a rush game, pure and simple. The faster and harder you rush the more chance you have of winning. The problem is most players don't realise it.

 

Every time i read the forums I think there is two versions of empires.....

 

Yeah my version has cute little apes in it : D

 

Presumably as an attempt to make it less rushy.

But that doesn't actually mean that it isn't rushy, it just means that the dev team isn't very good at making it not rushy.

 

What, noobs? Yeah, that's what my version has.

 

There's 2.2, and the leftovers we unwashed masses have.

 

I feel that Scout needs something for longer range engagement though. See my topic in Suggestions.

 

2.2s cancelled.
It had planes and boats n shit, and it even had completely rebalanced factions. Every tech was usable and a viable tactic. Unfortunately, the awesome levels killed 7 testers, so 2.2 was shut down, 2.3 is slated for release soon, it will be named 2.2, but only us testers, and now you, know the truth about Revision 441.

 

silly

 

I herd u went into frenzy.

 

It's not an attempt at making it less of a rush game, the research was there from 1.0 on. It's the concept and tactic of rushing that came later.

 

Yes, and why is the research there? To provide a pacer for the game and encourage it to be a little slower? Because the game is supposed to be a slower paced game than it is?

And my point is that it doesn't. research does nothing to make the game slower, empires is still a rush based game, regardless of whether you want it to be one or not.

It doesn't matter which came first.