Evolution and the origine of the species debate

Which they think is right, which is why they yell about it.

 

both of them are yelling all-right

one side yells for everyone to keep there eyes closed, because a dragon will eat them if they open it

the other side yells to open the eyes and see that there is no dragon, and that we should explore what IS out there

if its the yelling you dislike, then buy some ear plugs and avoid the debate

 

Actually... its more like this...

One side says there is a dragon in a cave and that it should be avoided or bad shit will happen.
The other side says the cave is filled with treasures and that there is no dragon in there.


the side who think there is a dragon try to warn people so they dont get eaten.
the side who think there is only treasures in there try to get people to gain confidence to walk inside the cave.

dependant on whos side is right you will either be devoured or you will gain treasures.

Neither side is doing anything bad in yelling at ya, from their viewpoint they are doing the right thing by yelling.

and this is also where the whole mockery of the other side begins...
"you are an idiot for not grabbing all the treasures which just lies scattered in there"
"you are an idiot for telling people to walk in there, you will all die"

The general standpoint of the human population is to stand outside the cave and wait to see if those who dare to enter come out with treasures or not.
If they come out with treasures then they will greedily run in and try to get their own.

If religion is right or wrong about the excistance of gods, etc... who knows.

It doesnt change the fact that we will still explore and try to learn new things.


Now if there happends to be some god(s) who torment and abuse me with all kinds of horrors for all eternity becouse i didnt worship him/them during my lifetime or follow all "their" rules, then so be it.


A selfish nonforgiving being like that is not something i would think highly of if it did excist.

And ofcourse there are various religions... some which sounds nicer than others...

But im not going to roll a dice and hope i get the right religion... neither will i read all their scriptures and pick the one which is the "nicest" or "best" etc...

I will, like most people, live my life in a way i see fitting.

Right now evolution seem to be the most believable thing, therefor ill go by that.

If we later on find evidence that some alien exported lifeforms to earth at year XX which are our ancestors or that im infact plugged into the matrix... then so be it.


Do i care?

no.

becouse im still the same person i was the day before.

 

zeke, the only problem is that people keep running out of the cave with treasure, even the ones that say there is a dragon inside have the benefit of the recovered treasure but they keep saying "dont go in lol"

fact is that the scientific method has brought us a lot of treasure, from air planes to ocean cruisers to stealth bombers to nuke warheads

fact is also that religion has done nothing mentionable for humanity in the last 2000 years other then bitch and nag about how bad scientific method is and how you should put your trust in the lord to make your life better in stead of getting up and doing it yourself

if there truly is a god, he probably does not believe in organised religion

 

i made a edit before ya posted ^_^

"The general standpoint of the human population is to stand outside the cave and wait to see if those who dare to enter come out with treasures or not.
If they come out with treasures then they will greedily run in and try to get their own."

 

Thing is, there's nothing wrong with religion and still exploring new things. One of the things I discovered about Christianity is that my God wants me to wonder and to question.

[vanish]

 

then why do you doubt the scientific method predom?

isn't the scientific method one of the best ways to get to the truth and core of things?

also please stop vanishing, its kinda annoying to talk to someone resembling a whack-a-mole

 

I just won't go too in-depth into discussions of Christianity. I'm not really knowledged in it, nor do I feel comfortable with it.

And I never doubted the sci. method. I agree it's one of the best ways to learn, but, as has already been stated, religion is out of science.

 

The god you believe in punished you, your parents, your grandparents, your ancestors and all of humanity becouse one person ate an apple from the... oh whats its name... oh thats right... THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE.

 

if you agree scientific method is the best way, then why doubt what it produced?

evolution is one of the best known examples of the scientific method

its still a theory in some perspectives, but then again to get something stated as a "fact" in scientific method is almost impossible

 

Because evolution doesn't explain where we came from.

 

no one said it should, evolution is a theory that explains how we became so diverse with species

it basically explains why there are so many species, and how we all have a common ancestor and how things evolved into other species over time by branching and mutating

all the rest it was never meant to explain


you are basically saying "the manual of my tv does not explain how my stereo works" evolution was never meant to answer that question, there was some scientific talking about that problem already though, but science is not yet able to explain how life formed, only some hypothesises are made most of them work great next to the theory of evolution, since most people start building on the problem from that direction (because the theory of evolution is such a solid theory) but nether of them are really standing out as "most probable"

 

It certainly doesnt.
It explains how we changed over time into what we are today.

Do i need to prove the very essence of excistance to make you believe that you are infact looking at a computer monitor?
or do i need to DISPROVE that you are plugged into the matrix and that everything you see isnt just a simulation in your brain?


I surely hope not.

Science doesnt know everything and never claimed it does.

But right now things point in the direction of that evolution has occured, is occuring and will continue doing so.

How the very start begun is another chapter of the book.

There is plenty of theories about that atm though, but neither are proven to the point they can be considered facts.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murchison_meteorite

It doesnt prove anything, but tada! organic matter exist in space.
Therefore the whole scientific ocean sludge version is far more logic/plausible than a magic man in the sky, whos "intelligent engineering" skills are laughable.

Religion is just an excuse to be stupid. I pray I do this and dont do that and my reward will be given to me when I die.
It must be great to be insane like that. Nothing you do while you live really matters and the rules are so simple it reminds me of console gameplay.
If anything good or bad happens god either has mysteries ways or is TESTING you!. no need to think at all.

 

Neither does creationism.

If a god created us... it doesn't really explain anything either, because then we would be left with the question of who or what created the god.

An argument for god being a creator is only a placeholder that doesn't answer any useful philosophical questions, which is why we can't really do anything with it until we dismantle it to see it for what it is.

Religion and science are not compatible. Don't you recognize the contradiction between faith, which is defined as belief without evidence, and science, which requires evidence to validate something so that we may then believe in it because we know it's real (and which also has a built-in self-correction mechanism)?

People of faith hate the very idea of being wrong (many of them are too scared to even toy with the idea), which is why they rarely abandon their position or question their beliefs. Scientists love finding out when they're wrong, because the process usually involves learning more about this breathtaking universe and involves the gradual removal of their ignorance about reality.

If someone ran up to you and said that they just returned to the Earth after having been abducted and studied by aliens, you wouldn't believe such a claim unless they had some way of proving it with hard evidence. Yet, when a preacher tells you that woman was created from the rib of a man, or that a baby boy was born of a virgin mother (which we know is nonsense, even though it has been theorized as pathiogenesis, it has never occurred), then you suddenly waiver your evidence requirement and make a leap of faith.

If faith can be used to justify your beliefs, then it can be used to justify all kinds of bizarre things. Unfortunately, it has been employed to justify the most horrible events in the history of mankind. But dismantling religions on their pseudomoral grounds is an entirely different feat than dismantling creationism/ID.

This is perhaps one of the best cartoons representing the contradiction between faith and science:

 

It is indeed hotly debated as to how the first "cell" came to be, but do note that this first cell was all that was needed. Once the primordial cell was there, everything sped up extremely fast.

One theory (I notice that the term theory and hypothesis tend to be confused here, a theory is a hypothesis that is supported by facts, but a theory can still be challenged with new facts that don't fit) is that through random chance, an enzyme came into existence that managed to make a copy of itself. This RNA then later evolved, through non-random (that is, good survives, bad dies) natural selection, into DNA. See this Wikipedia article for a more elaborate explanation.

I'm also afraid that religion does not, at all, explain how life came into existence. Looking at it rationally, the religious argument is even incredibly ridiculous: some entity created the simplest of life forms to watch it grow (and later disapprove of its sex lives), but this entity must have been extremely complex. It can be wondered if this entity simply popped into existence, or also evolved through a steady process. When following the religious argument in both cases, what created the creator, the creator's creator, ad infinitum?

The likelihood of the god hypothesis is simply not the same as the other hypotheses, exactly because the god hypothesis does hardly have any facts going for it. The other hypotheses, on the other hand, do, and some have grown into full-fledged theories.

 

You can't try to intermingle religion and science by trying facts and hypothesis.

Also, there is historical evidence that Christ walked the Earth.