Empires League Game #1 3rd of june - 20:00 BST - 19:00 UTC - 13:00 PST - 16:00 EST

Discussion in 'Events' started by Spike, May 6, 2017.

Added to Calendar: 06/03/17
  1. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    "It's not stacked because AAA and BBB should balance it."
    I can not believe I am hearing this again.

    I guess I should feel lucky that at least Spike didn't join BE.

    I have left the "meh I don't like the host but it's scrims so I'll put up with him anyway" stage.
     
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  2. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    atleast someone here realises spikes nature
     
  3. Lollum

    Lollum Tester++

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    Got my recording of the second round now uploaded, too:
     
  4. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    still cant believe we lost south east so bad with my 2 top squads
     
  5. BigTeef

    BigTeef Bootleg Headshot master

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    Is there seriously no footage of the Brenodian perspective?
     
  6. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Looking at that screen shot I have to wonder if I was comm considering tickets used. I'd have blamed that over that lose, I mean we had azk, he brings so much life to the party it's like having 5 other guys on the team.

    Kidpaler when it was the other summer league trickster hosted the first round was almost always a 20 minute wait til round start. Second round was usually around 10-15 though, barring any crashes and trying to get people back into the server(which happened like 4 times I think.) Even when I tried a squad league I think it took like 10-15 to get things started, but then we had to basically draft every game, though slightly faster because you picked groups for most of it.

    This is just something inherent in any international event where the players aren't actually the most hardcore players. Perfectly even(player count) teams is also makes this longer, that's when you kinda need a floater group to kinda fill in the gaps, but as security's picture demonstrates you kinda need mid tier players to fill that in, not a bunch of high tier players or excellent team players who swing things way to easy.
     
  7. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I think you missed both my videos, they are up and posted in the thread.

    Unless you meant Jekotians. Then yeah what's up with that?

    Edit @Lazybum: The long start delay was always caused by the organisational headache of balancing the number of players in each team. One side would always show with more people and needed that time for volunteers to give up playing in one of the rounds or for ringers to be found. The only way to properly curb this problem down is to make pre-game attendance checks actually matter for anything other than giving a rough idea of what the minimum player count is going to be. But just you wait for the shitstorm that is bound be ensued by players who haven't signed up for whatever reason and still want to play. Without this sort of thing, enforcing a set amount of commander vote time is going to result in organisational problems carrying over into the game itself, but there is going to be a lot of friction between players and organisers, at least for the first few times it's enforced.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
  8. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    That was my point, it's not really a mystery. People are just used to pugs where it didn't really matter. Sign ups don't quite work either, what do when people sign up but then don't show? It regularly happens because things happen last minute.

    The small group of floaters that spike tried last time was actually the best way to streamline this, but it just didn't work because of who was in it. Sure I guess it was about balancing and not just filling slots, but for that teams I think need to be balanced from the start. I don't think it should be balanced right before the match because it seems pretty easy to swing too far in one direction.
     
  9. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    If people can't show at the last minute, you have to look at what that last minute cause was. If your power plant gets shut down, sure, not your fault, something will be worked out. If you decide to eat your dinner, then it's all on you and some form of punishment should be enacted, be it a warning or getting barred from signing up for future attendance checks.

    These attendance checks should be used to determine what the map is going to be, as well as the baseline amount of players. Any late showers that haven't signed up before would only get to join if both teams were to get the same amount of players and only if both teams (or specifically, captains thereof) agreed on them. That way, you solve a lot of organisational headaches for the simple player, but will probably need an organizer to monitor the game instead of playing. We don't have that.
     
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  10. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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  11. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    I get that there is usually a delay, however last year I don't think it was nearly as bad, and if it was I probably was just as annoyed because I came on to play not to sit there talking to people. I booted up this game to join a game, shoot some people, drive a tank, maybe command some people around. I didn't join to wait 30 minutes to do this, not be able to hold anything, and lose terribly by seeing the writing on the wall.
     
  12. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Then you joined to play the usual public Empires. There is nothing wrong with that, but any attempt at organising an entire game is bound to take time. At the same time, I'm not defending Saturday's setup as it was, indeed, atrociously slow. However, you can't reasonably expect to just push a button and immediately start playing a scrim, this just isn't possible.
     
  13. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    I'm not saying push a button and go... 10 minutes is quite enough time to "install discord" and "administrate", which is what X's excuse was.
     
  14. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Not with the amount of oversight we've had in place. Everything had to be taken care of basically right as we started.

    People were joining the server throughout, regardless of whether they responded to the attendance check or not. That forced us to wait until the start of the game to figure out number equalizing, squads, and some kind of strategy, since we had no control over the actual amount of players on either team. Getting the numbers even on each side without forcing people out (no rule about minimum player counts, no rule about late joiners, nothing) will always take time because someone has to volunteer to dropping a round or two. We wound up dropping the fixed teams rule to ensure nobody gets forced out of the game (because who cares about the whole "fixed teams" "league" thing), but even then finding someone to swap takes a while.

    Then there's the problem of squadding up, which involved finding players to play with and then setting up their comms systems (which takes time as well, particularly when you don't know where to go until someone mercifully tells you).

    Strategy talk consisted of "okay I'm the comm and we do what I say and there's no ifs and no buts because there's no time" on the Brenodians side. I obviously can't comment on Jekotians, but the two ways of fixing that are to either introduce a lengthy planning phase at the start of each round (yes, round, because playercounts change between rounds, because people don't care enough to play two rounds properly and there's no punishment for dropping out anyways), or to enforce a rule that only people that responded to a roll call made ahead of time get to play*.

    This is all before we get into individual cases that need to be resolved one by one, like when a player's power plant gets shut down and a replacement has to be found or the other team has to drop someone. And given that all "organisers" were occupied by way of playing the game as well as trying to take care of such issues, their attention was further split away from ensuring the event ran without any hitches. Frankly, this is one of many things that I don't see changing for the better.

    All in all, as expected, the thing was ill-prepared despite past events running into very similar issues and warnings from several worried sources.

    *The way I see it, people could only join late/without responding to the roll call only in equal numbers for both sides and after captains agreed on that. As per a previous post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
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  15. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    That is total BS. Naokip had clearly laid out the plans for Jekotia, had squads assigned, had SL's assigned, had squads positions assigned, had commander assigned, and had squad location assigned. I showed up late, was told where my squad went and that took a whopping 30 seconds, including the reinstall of teamspeak.

    The longer you wait, the more people who decide to "join". Your strategy and everything should be figured out BEFORE the game. Don't punish the team who actually decided to get their shit together waiting 30 minutes because you guys came unprepared. That's how I'm reading this. A balance of teams should take no longer than a 3-5 minute discussion. In the case of the first round, there wasn't even a discussion and one of our guys just LEFT to your team because he was so fed up with the game not starting. Nothing should take 30 minutes for this.

    You SERIOUSLY didn't have squads setup beforehand? I'm pretty sure everyone on our team knew damn well who their leader was and squads were organized in the warm up. I joined up on Teamspeak and EVERYONE was in their respective squads. There wasn't an argument on who gets who. Everyone knew where they were going as well, already was on teamspeak. The only person we waited on was Freak because he joined last second and even then he managed to get in teamspeak within 300 seconds.

    Or have your plans decided beforehand. That could work as well.

    Great. His power plant got shut down. If that happens call for a switch or make the other team vote off a player. Should be fairly easy to do. Also, the organizers should just be focused on the organization because you should come into it with the plan in place.


    Glad to know Naokips hardwork of organizing was gone to waste because you guys got to organize for 30 minutes beforehand. If I misread or misunderstood, I apologize but from how I read that it sounds like you used that 30 minutes to plan out everything.
     
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  16. Minato

    Minato Member

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    I mean to be fair you're not really doing me much of a service here. You'll see that it took me about an hour and a half to organize what they did in half an hour if you go through some mental loops and really twist your perspective on things. I also didn't have to deal with managing the server and I didn't have a dozen people breathing down my neck 15 minutes before start. Arguably, this latter point could have been resolved with longer prep time but that's not the point.

    Organization and playerbase should really be made separate if future events like these take place. The stress is immense and the solution of having several team leaders proved to be just a half-baked solution when Spike is an active player, everyone panics and yells at the drop of a hat, Xya's server ends up being used and everyone asks him millions of questions as a result (what the fuck ever happened to using jekotian server?), and Pararox and Spike play out their usual spiel with the former kicking the latter from the server during the setup phase for reasons unclear to anyone.

    Like, fuck off guys. I didn't sign up for this. Everything went wrong and whoever tries to defend any part of the collective EMBARRASSMENT that took place on Saturday is either deluded or a liar.
     
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  17. Neoony

    Neoony Member

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    ....meanwhile 2 people in Brenodia describe the plan 4-5 times, each time differently xD
    They almost started full argument about it xD

    xD

    But I kinda liked someone else, simply posting the picture of the plan on the discord (dicks included of course), which totally made me ask, why dont we better draw the plans ? xD
     
  18. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    Personally, I'd expect the league organizers to have the server setup and ready beforehand so they don't NEED to have that longer prep time. "Administration" of the server beforehand is what? Setting the tanks to the respective number? What else? Sure there could be a discussion on player count and who gets who, but you should GENERALLY have a plan in place for your numbers/estimation you get.
     
  19. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Having multiple leaders is fine in theory, but you STILL need some task delegation. That should be done between the leaders themselves. I was trying to give people links to Discord and assigning roles while X sorted server settings and player counts. In retrospect, this is somethign we should have agreed upon beforehand to optimise it. If I play another round, I'll be sure that is sorted.
     
  20. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Paradox should have never opened his mouth when we were on BE, I was in charge. I had to explain it a second time after he confused everyone by giving a totally different plan from what I explained first.

    We did do a lot of drawing for the plan during the pre-game planning on friday but it was made irrelevant because we had 22 players instead of the 13 or so we planned for it.
    Both teams should definitely do some pre-game planning and drawing. But you should never expect it to hold.
     

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