I want to speed up APCs, and the new scripts allow for an 8 mine + squad arty to instakill a CV at the back (maybe +1 mortar on NF CV, haven't tested yet). But jeep armour never really disappeared, it just all got integrated into the hull. And mines killing buildings was always a bit of a poor gameplay element imo, being able to drop 6 buildings with one 9mine plant.
I was reading this and had a somewhat unrelated thought; you never get any rewards for running half way across a map to save something, or get into position or infiltrate an enemy encampment. Considering how large Empires maps are, and how tedious the running from one place to another is, I feel that we should change that somehow. I know that it's a kinda ridiculous thing to examine, but the sooner you start getting rewards for the more shitty parts of the game, the sooner people will be more willing to do the legwork. I did briefly think about having a move order completed over a certain distance would give you a point or squad points, but it's probably pretty exploitable (well, if you like running, or if you get a jeep say - although i'm not sure), and probably hard to implement. Still, I think that it needs some looking at.
Maybe a point every X distance a player travels, including the distance teleported... I mean killspawned. Maybe traveling to an enemy base that's far from your own? Getting close to the enemy CV?
what ikalx said, you should reward boring task more, since fun is reward enough. but you gotta be careful or leveling might turn into mmo-like grinding ... also aaaaaa50 you "travel" further when you strafe left-right or you just can run in circles when idle. also distance traveled alone doesnt tell anything about your usefulness. only in comparison to your points it will tell something. in a perfect game youd have as little travel time per point as possible ... ... but this is easier and better measured in points per second anyway, since it actually doesnt really matter where you idle or gain points anyway, i think what should be done is to spread all boring tasks equally between all classes (which are building and repairing). quite obviously this will affect the engi most, as building shit up is the most boring thing one could do, but it better serves as medic/field mechanic anyway. id say let buildings get built and repaired by a maximum of 3 people and the engi tool upgrade acts as if it was a player. so you build/repair at 100, 75, 50% of the time needed depending on building (this works differently currently i think). engi still can repair tanks, supply cover, turrets, health and ammo which he can use to nadespam. also youll have to do something about scunts with hide (= cannot build) - and armories, which are the only building that might pose a problem (as it reduces the need for engies, but we reduced it already, so who cares), thoug once income and pricing stuff is fixed so that resources actually matter, it shouldnt be that bad either.
I can't help but wonder that you may have missed the point. Games are not about doing something shitty for a reward, that's generally called 'work' and is what people play games to escape from. That the shitty parts of the game are important, that's the problem. You shouldn't HAVE to run across the map to save something, infiltration should not revolve around crawling very slowly so your cloak doesn't turn off. Try doing something like making refineries harder to place but also harder to destroy, so maybe you can spawn at them, or teleport between them and your main base, so if they're under attack you can fight to defend them. On the other hand you wouldn't build all of the refs in the first five minutes, so you would have fewer of them and more neutral ground. The smaller territories would make the game much less about running miles across unsecurable territory, and more about fighting between closer points. Change the way bases work so that they automatically spawn walls around them, or other obstructions so that infiltrating them is more about intelligently using cover and sightlines, rather than just camping out while invisible, add some sort of aerial insertion thing you can buy with skill points or personal wages, so you don't have to run across the entire map to get to a base. Basically there's lots of options you can explore to make the game less shitty rather than trying to make people want to play a shitty game. Take tank fighting, I like driving around in a tank shooting cannons at stuff and getting sweet air by driving off cliffs. That's fun to me, that I get points for it and more money to buy cooler tanks with is simply an enhancement of that fun. On the other hand, I can get far MORE points by just sitting in base repairing shit, or reviving people constantly over and over again on the frontlines, however I don't do either of those things because no amount of reward makes those fun. I will sometimes do them if I NEED to do them, but I don't enjoy doing them, they make me want to stop playing the game. Take the boring crap out, find some other way to make it so those jobs get done, or remove the need to do them entirely.
I actually liked that. After all, it did take some time to set up, and if executed properly it would end up devastating.
Although I highly agree with what Chris is stating, I do need to note that there are players that get all their enjoyment from winning, from being the most useful, and/or having the most points. Or it's an ego boost, but it keeps them playing all the same. Just wanted to throw that out there.
Hmm, maybe I guess, people play games for weird reasons, although I think with the whole winning = fun = points idea, those people would still enjoy the game.
If you revert everything please revert the mortar splash radius and make it possible again to shot the mortar while crouch-jumping, thx.
You are aware that the mortar splash has only gone up since 2.0? I mean if you want it reduced back down Mayama, that's cool with me.
Chris, it wasn't in any way a rebuff to your post, that's why it was "somewhat unrelated". I agree that the fun stuff should be more fun, and the ideas you've put down are cool too. I was just saying that say grabbing the refineries on dust, even at the beginning, means you run for 3 minutes or so and then may or may not die and rinse repeat. Without a reward, that pretty much sucks and it doesn't look like those things will be changed any time soon, so why not make more incentives? And if you say winning is incentive enough...well, we all know that doesn't wash really. And the people that do do it to help the team and win, end up getting jaded when they put in effort time and time again just to have the rest of the team fold or it squandered. That's why so many so-called vets just prefer dicking around. It's not (just) that they're pricks, it's because they tired of trying, really.
Not everything that's more convenient is also helpfull to the gameflow. It doesn't have to be a full revert, just the AoE of the mines towards buildings and the dmg so maybe 12 mines can kill a rax from a corpse distance away. Or maybe make it so a 9mine can kill a single building with very low AoE for buildings?! To be honest, if you kept an eye out on mined bases you could easily keep everything alive, if it wasn't a planned 9mine to take out your base, that is, which takes long enought to prepare in the middle of an enemy base <- ninjaing a careless enemy is what this is called, it can throw a winning team back, exactly what we need ... not only gives it ninja capacities but can also end games faster by getting rid of the last rax with 10 engys inside repairing like mad. and as a side effect, defusal for infantry had a bit more of a use, now it's more like ppl jump on mines to defuse them since they can respawn safely at the very same spot 10 sec later, granted only the amount of ppl doing so changed.
Even if you increased the damage done to buildings, people are still going to jump on them. The only reason I don't defuse mines in the barracks/VF is because of the fairly high chance that some dumbass will miss my warning that I'm defusing mines, build a vehicle/walk over it and kill both of us. Of course, I'm not one to be demeaning to others in this regard; I've had my fair share of times where I saw a mine in my path, followed by the slowest and most painful second of my life as I realize it's there while I'm running into it, but cannot stop myself for whatever reason.
he was refering to the possibility to take out whole bases with well placed 9mining. its no prediction, it actually was like that in previous versions ...
Hmm, more incentives would be better than no incentives, but I can't help but feel that if you don't fix it properly, which means seriously reworking parts of the game to get rid of the really dumb things you have to do, then it just won't be enough. I'm all for making some serious changes to the game, it's got a lot of stuff right with it but also a lot of stuff wrong, and the conservative attitude of 'don't change anything because you might ruin the game' just doesn't make sense to me. If it ruins the game you can change it back, but the game needs and would benefit immensely from some big changes.
Well... at least we've seen some tries with testing - what with vehicle salvaging down to diminishing returns, and yae e'en e-build buffing. The game does need big fixes and big changes, but we both know the way the mod has been going for a while. It's hard for these devs to do that easily, so it more becomes a question of what should they spend their time on. I am kinda proud that they're trying some of the good ideas from way back, though.
