Empires has a number of issues: - stacking - vehicle vs. infantry balance - overpowered/underpowered tech - bad commanders ruining a team's chances - commanding being closer to a frustrating chore than playing a game - scout still being a selectable class without requiring a secret code only special people know But I believe one of the biggest issues is the slippery slope: the more a team is losing the harder it becomes to recover. It goes like this: 1 - a team loses ground 2 - a team loses refinery points 3 - a team loses income 4 - a team cant afford technology and tanks 5 - a team becomes less effective at fighting 6 - a team loses ground This is not something unique to Empires, but there are two things that make it a problem: 1: It happens 2: It doesn't happen fast enough The second one is not really something that can be fixed, since it leads to games that are over too quickly once one side starts winning and longer games with lots of small tactics and an overall strategy are the strength of empires. It was made worse however by the massive boost to the CV's armor. Right now it's only possible to reliably kill the cv if the entire enemy team is suppressed. That means killing all raxes and killing every living soldier before chasing the CV with an army of tanks and killing it. Previously a single tank or apc rush had a chance of being successful at winning the game. But at the moment you absolutely HAVE to completely crush the other team to buy yourself the time to, slowly, kill the CV. The result is a slow grind to victory for one side and a slow meat grind to defeat for the other. Losing becomes seriously unfun and people stack the team that gets to do the grind to victory, while leaving the team that is losing. The best way to remedy the situation would probably be to tackle the slippery slide happening at all. I didn't put this in "suggestions" because I don't really have an answer to the problem, but here are some suggestions anyway: Suggestion 1: Punish success, Mario Kart style For instance: give technology and tanks a downside, like upkeep or a ticket cost, that makes them less of an obvious advantage and more something that requires effort to really be useful and can backfire if the losing team isn't finished off fast enough. Suggestion 2: Mitigate the effect of losing, counter-strike style For instance: give both teams a standard amount of resources per second, which is a significant fraction of the maximum available on the entire map. Alternatively: Make research free so that the only requirement is an investment of time, which is freely available to a losing team. Making refineries much less critical to success would lessen the impact of losing ground and thus of losing fights. Suggestion 3: Limit the amount of fighting strength a team can gain. This one would basically mean making all chassis's available from the start and nerfing the researchable weapons, engines and armors. So that even a team without a commander could hold its own against a well developed team. I don't think this one is really realistic or fun probably. Well, that's all I have to say about this at the moment. Feel free to ignore/flame/insult me. Criticism, discussion and other ideas are also welcome of course.
I agree on most you say, but the cv having too much or not enough health? highly doubtable, I have plenty of times killed the cv solo or with another partner medium tank/heavy tank with an mg and cannon or missile, it goes fast enough especially if you still have squad arty or what not. Even a squad rev with 4 grens take out a cv prtty fast.
I know what you are saying and alot of it is accurate but I think of it in a different context. I don't think the commander makes as big of a difference as people like to believe. On some maps (mostly choke point maps) it is true as base design, wall formations and precise building placement are too important. But on open maps games are pretty much won/lost on the field - research isn't even that important. Until seige weapons come out (3 slotters or arty, etc). Really the most important thing is squad leaders. If you have good squad leaders you will win the game, period. The commander need be only Average at best. Of course a really good commander can save a team from themselves but it shouldn't be necessary. The commander can be a fantastic aid but too many people expect the comm to be pin point accurate, exactly on time, etc with everything, all the time and its just not necessary. The team should be able to hold ground for 30 seconds whilst the comm sorts themself out to drop barracks or whatever. A bad team is a bad team and will loose because they are not coordinated. The slippery slope of res starvation is really just a symptom of a team who can't organise. Very few games end with a really good team fighting back with hard and efficient tactics only to loose because they can't produce tanks - when a team gets to that point it usually means that even if you gave them 10 heavies they would still loose, albeit slower. One thing I think would help is possibly the diminishing returns thing but moreover I'd like to see res linked to tanks. So the more tanks you have out the less money you get. This would make tanks precious commodities that have to be exploited fully. Rather than now where res is so high on most maps I can always roll a tank and by the time I charge it into a turret farm and die there will bed enough cash for another! I think map design options can do alot more to give some options to teams that are stuck in a rut. Better than changing the game itself I reckon.
I'd personally like to see that experienced players get a tank easyer then nubs who waste them. E.G. You are in need of a tank but the team doesn't have enough res, you can get wages but it's not enough. So what I would really like to see is a system based even more on wages and on what you effectively do for the team and if you do really well you deserve a tank and if you waste tanks and tickets what not you don't even get a jeep for all I care
Not going to read all the other posts, but overall, making research free and making each extra ref you get worth less are already planned/already added for the next patch.
OP, it can't be fixed, most of empires is decided at the FPS level (player skill) but the flow of the game is decided at the RTS level (How well your team rushed early in the game). If you play any rts, such as starcraft, you would know that a mistake very early in the game decides the rest of the game, and it is even worse in empires because the way things work out is based on how people handle themselves in the battlefield, not on hard counters.
the losing team may lose ground but it still has a reasonable amount of chance left. when the enemy lunges, they expose vunerable points that if the losing team can pinpoint accurately/quickly enough they can bite back effectively and regain their losses. this mechanic happens in pretty much ever game of empires. the only time the slippery slope is a problem is when morale/leadership are low and players decide to either A. fuck around or B. rage to spec
Im always seeking past enemy lines and setting up a barracks next to enemy main. This in turn makes the enemy team flip out and come back to main to help defend it. What does my team do? Jack shit with the opportunity I give them. Spawn at enemy main? NO! Start taking back territory? NO! "What do they do?" You might ask. They take that time to make more turrets and walls at main... WTF!?! Point is... the slippery slope is made slippery due to low average player intelligence/skill. They are too used to shity AI in games where winning by turtling is a valid tactic.
Honestly, if tanks were weaker and cost more money it'd make people less likely to constantly zerg rush. On fuckloads of maps with 64 players on a server, at the endgame you can literally suicide heavies one after another into the enemy main and still respawn and make more. Considering how fucking ridiculously sturdy heavy tanks are, that's fucking stupid.
I actually enjoy doing this, although e.g. slaughtered, you're eventually going to run low on money , but hey, big ass tank fights are fucking baws especially in D3 area
I used to love being a combat engi, running around in the middle of crazy frantic tank battles repairing meds and heavies, but there's no point. Empires is about tanks no doubt, but it was cool when tanks would stick around infantry more. Its really fun being an infantry and watching tank battles from foot. Or pushing up as a squad behind a tank or two before repairing them and waving them off. There are still things that are easier to do on foot than in a tank but now that stuff becomes largely irrelevant because of how strong tanks are. Useful too when things tighten up to kill would be sticky grenaders and what not.
that made me thing about a plasma incinerator/suicide booth for vehicles and shitty players again. Should be like a repair pad but work the opposite way ove:
Stacking implies that the teams are balanced to began with. As for not being able to kill the cv, you are using the wrong weapons. NF use uml and plasma. BE use uml, plasma, and pray.
Free research is a good idea. It's frustrating when you're waiting for res to tick up and up. All the time, everyone is screaming at you to unlock the vf and start research. Then, as you continue the match, the cost becomes small enough to simply not matter. So, the cost is either frustrating or meaningless. In both cases, it doesn't contribute to the game.
Uml + plasma? bro, why you so stupid you won't ever be able to rush with uml and plasma straight in the enemies base and kill it? you'll overheat way to fast. You want 1 medium + squad points or 2 mediums, if nf = uml + cannon +squad arties If be = he +2ml +squad arties This combo should kill their comm in under Minute half 2 minutes. If you have 2 mediums plus squad arties even faster. best way to kill a commander still probably is, uml + bio mg be mediumtank with squad arties
