Done with Empires Forums

Discussion in 'General' started by DocRabbit, Nov 22, 2016.

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  1. DocRabbit

    DocRabbit Member

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    I have finally reached my fill of Empires forums. I will stay on as an Admin on NUBS if creeper wants me to, but my game play in Empires will reduce. I can no longer support such a hostile place and utter disrespect for people that this environment creates.

    This comment reached an all time low even for Empires, and my statement was of a real life situation, not some in game drama or such. I defended a friend whom I am sure most of you have your dislikes for for some reason or other. I spoke of a time I wish for no one to experience, even though it is inevitable for all of you to endure. The following excerpt, while long, was in forum chat, and I stand behind anything I said there.

    The response was even worse than I would have ever expected. The response is at the end, but I wanted you to see the entire log here. I would never make this kind of comment, even to someone I disliked.

    My hope is this doesn't get omitted, because this was an attack on me, not the character Doc. To tell someone "I don't give a shit" about your father dying, well I don't even have words to explain that comment.

    Code:
    Yesterday at 7:54 PM - DocRabbit: I would like to talk to creeper about him abusing his admin to fit his own needs.
    vipervicki Yesterday at 7:54 PM - vipervicki: he still doing that?
    vipervicki Yesterday at 7:54 PM - vipervicki: come to our ts
    DocRabbit Yesterday at 7:54 PM - DocRabbit: yeah, he did it to steve the other day
    vipervicki Yesterday at 7:54 PM - vipervicki: me and thecreeper are there evryday til we go to bed so are some others
    vipervicki Yesterday at 7:55 PM - vipervicki: want the address?
    DocRabbit Yesterday at 7:55 PM - DocRabbit: yeah
    vipervicki Yesterday at 7:55 PM - vipervicki: ts3.firebit.co.uk
    DocRabbit Yesterday at 7:55 PM - DocRabbit: k
    vipervicki Yesterday at 7:55 PM - vipervicki: right now onle me and thecreeper are there
    Paradox Yesterday at 11:04 PM - Paradox: Thats where LT gets his admin abuse from , now I Get it
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:20 AM - Sgt.Security: I knew it's Steve UK, like when you said someone PM you about abuse, I
    
    am fairly sure he did not tell you that he had been language-harrasing several members including myself over the course of years
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:21 AM - Sgt.Security: And of course, when you punish him he just goes to you because I totally
    
    silenced him randomly.
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:21 AM - Sgt.Security: when *
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:21 AM - Sgt.Security: when I*
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:22 AM - Sgt.Security: I have explained this to Creeper already, and yeah Steve picked the guy
    
    who didn't know about the story to complain, how convenient.
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:27 AM - Sgt.Security: And that SOMEONE did take the story without coming to me at all
    
    because he probably also wanted to jump on me when he's got a change, right?
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:27 AM - Sgt.Security: chance*
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:28 AM - Sgt.Security: That's very neutral and nice, Doc, anyway you got your rights to dislike me,
    
    it's really not like I care, someone has to dislike you like Steve UK.
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:33 AM - Paradox: Since when is it ok to silence a guy completely for having an oppinion about other
    
    people?
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:33 AM - Paradox: Dont get me wrong, I dont like steve uk at all
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:33 AM - Paradox: But seems a bit harsh to silence him or punish him in general cause he says bad
    
    things about you
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:34 AM - Sgt.Security: Not just me, also that's not just once, twice, three times, four times.
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:34 AM - Paradox: I get you're an admin and you dislike getting bad things said about you, but tons of
    
    bad things get said to non admins constantly and they dont get silenced
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:34 AM - Sgt.Security: Not even 10 times, it's over course of years.
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:34 AM - Paradox: I Dont think that warrants anything honestly
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:35 AM - Paradox: JGF makes fun of xya his accent and nationality
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:35 AM - Sgt.Security: Okay Paradox, you play your Dota, jump on every player you see.
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:35 AM - Paradox: on a semi daily absis
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:35 AM - Paradox: What ar eyou talking about? Ive said it plenty of itmes before,, im the nicest guy in
    
    dota because if you are mean in dota you dont win games
    NekoBaron Yesterday at 12:35 AM - NekoBaron: inert other drama
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:35 AM - Sgt.Security: I have to say, Xya is pretty tolerant with these kind of things.
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:35 AM - Paradox: being nie actually helps you win games in that game so Im nice
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:35 AM - Sgt.Security: Even though he does rage a lot.
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:35 AM - Paradox: Yeah security, I dont care if xya is tolerant
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:36 AM - Paradox: it's about the things the other person says
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:36 AM - Paradox: It's not because I have a thick skin that's ok to flame me, but someone else doesnt
    
    have a thick skin and gets flamed and the flamer get silenced
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:37 AM - Paradox: That reasoning is very off. It's about the action and not the victim
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:37 AM - Sgt.Security: JGF is an admin himself, it's really not like I can and should do anything to
    
    him.
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:37 AM - Paradox: Thats why Im saying steve shouldnt be punished for just flaming people since so
    
    many others do it constantly without getting punished
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:37 AM - Sgt.Security: Also don't flush my message, I am fairly sure Doc does not know what kind
    
    of a person Steve UK is.
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:37 AM - Paradox: just because you got hurt
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:38 AM - Paradox: doesnt mean you can go around punishing people cause you're the admin
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:44 AM - Sgt.Security: So many other do it constantly without getting punished, that does not
    
    justify anything at all and you know it. And yes i do step into senseless debate/insult on server, not just those against me.
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:45 AM - Paradox: I understand security, but if you are going to punish other people for insulting and
    
    you are of the oppinion that people shouldnt get away then you should consistently punish poeple you see doing that instead of
    
    only the people doing it to you
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:46 AM - Sgt.Security: I do, from time to time, and honestly I have no control over other admins.
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:47 AM - Paradox: Dont do it from time to time, cause right now it just seems like you are covering
    
    your own ass by saying its not justified that people get away, but Ill just only silence the people that piss me off
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:47 AM - Paradox: Having controle over other admins or not, if you are of the oppinion you have to
    
    enforce it, otherwise your oppinion is just covering your own ass from admitting it was admin abuse, which Im not saying it
    
    was, Im just saying it looks that way
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:48 AM - Sgt.Security: Okay from time to time is a bad phrase, I do that quite regularly.
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:48 AM - Sgt.Security: And yes if you wanna jump on me because "there's this once I didn't do
    
    anything", that's you know, a little inappropriate.
    Sgt.Security Yesterday at 12:49 AM - Sgt.Security: Anyway gotta go to work.
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:49 AM - Paradox: Im not jumping on you for a specific action
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:49 AM - Paradox: Im jumping on you for the reasoning of the action
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:49 AM - Paradox: or atleast the context around it that i've heard about
    ScardyBob Yesterday at 12:50 AM - ScardyBob: empdrama is bestdrama
    Paradox Yesterday at 12:52 AM - Paradox: badmin drama is best drama
    CRITAWAKETS Yesterday at 1:47 AM - CRITAWAKETS: Ohh schit mai aynuis iz burnin
    vipervicki Yesterday at 1:47 AM - vipervicki: security..no worries
    CRITAWAKETS Yesterday at 1:47 AM - CRITAWAKETS: Its spanish for :"This food is very good"
    vipervicki Yesterday at 1:48 AM - vipervicki: lol what is?
    vipervicki Yesterday at 1:48 AM - vipervicki: oh thats not spanish
    vipervicki Yesterday at 1:48 AM - vipervicki: lol
    vipervicki Yesterday at 1:48 AM - vipervicki: haha i jsut read it
    vipervicki Yesterday at 1:49 AM - vipervicki: speecy spicy food
    CRITAWAKETS Yesterday at 2:08 AM - CRITAWAKETS: [IMG]
    ScardyBob Yesterday at 2:17 AM - ScardyBob: fire from your butthole?
    complete_ Yesterday at 4:36 AM - complete_: please dont conclude admin drama until i get to post
    A-z-K Yesterday at 4:46 AM - A-z-K: Shit like this the reason why I never take any admin action ever besides ungrief.
    DocRabbit 51 minutes ago - DocRabbit: I find it funny that if anyone is rude to Security, it's always their fault, even when his
    
    arrogance and rudeness is what spawns that approach people take with him.
    DocRabbit 45 minutes ago - DocRabbit: And yes, steve_uk is my friend, one of the few true friends I have in this community.
    
    While steve may have his faults, he was one of the very few people here that was there for me when my father passed away a
    
    couple of years ago.
    DocRabbit 43 minutes ago - DocRabbit: Most of the people here probably didn't even know about that. So yes Security, he is
    
    my friend, and I will defend him. I am a real person, not just a bunch of text or a voice on a microphone. The problem with this
    
    community, you forget there are real people behind the text.
    DocRabbit 38 minutes ago - DocRabbit: So flame on if you have to, I am sure there are those here that will just love to do it,
    
    just because its the cool or "pc" thing to do. The real problem with this game will never be fixed with scripts programming or
    
    new models, because the real problem is the people and the way you treat others.
    Sgt.Security 18 minutes ago - Sgt.Security: What a touching story, yeah well, I don't gives a shit, anyway I am gonna walk off
    
    with this completely, I thought you were neutral but well, arguing with a hater is just a plain waste of time.
    DocRabbit 15 minutes ago - DocRabbit: My point exactly Mr PC himself
    DocRabbit 14 minutes ago - DocRabbit: Someday your father will pass, I hope you look back on what you just said.
    
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
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  2. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Here's my apology because you thought "I don't give a shit" goes to your father.
    I am sorry if you thought it that way.

    This was supposed to be the full sentence:
    "I don't give a shit" that Steve UK consoled you, that doesn't give him the warrant to shit talk around.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
  3. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    I'm glad you clarified that security because I just read shoutbox and was appalled.
     
  4. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i still dont see how this has to be dragged into the public.
     
  5. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    it was already public in shoutbox and was hurtful, extremely. It has come to my attention some members have been making personal attacks, which is out of line. arguing over the game or how good or bad someone is, or game details etc is acceptable but attacking someone in an aspect of their personal life goes beyond the line of decency.
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i said public i thought it would be obvious i mean the shoutbox aswell. where is the public interest in docs problem with security?
    like i dont care about any of that honestly.

    but at least there is drama. yey
     
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  7. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    LOL flasche

    well I thought you meant this thread which is also public, nothing private about a thread on the forums, even unregistered people can read it.
     
  8. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    I didn't think anything in that chat was offensive, it was actually very civil and PC approved.

    Cant we all get along?
     
  9. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    i think its important to know who the good people are in the community for future reference
     
  10. Tama

    Tama Developer Staff Member Web Developer

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    I think this is good lesson for those who read, see hate and respond in kind. First of all, have a little trust in the writer; the text I am asked to moderate on these forums is usually in large part ambiguous, and only offensive to some eyes. Second, don't flame fire against fire. If you are too emotional to reflect on what you are doing, just close the forums and forget it for a while.

    People ask me to censor this or that, or to lock or delete this thread, and then I read it and all I see is one misunderstanding on top of another. People who don't understand themselves causing much more hate than they ever intended. But the problem underlying this is usually a lack of information; I don't think I've ever seen a post on these forums just taking an ambiguous post and asking "what exactly do you mean by this sentence here?". So the reason that I don't delete most posts reported, is that that takes away even more information. Then the resentment remains in the heart of the person aggravated, without any way for him to come back, read over the same text with different eyes and understand the situation better.
     
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  11. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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  12. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    the reason people see hate as you call it is because others have had the same type of nasty confrontations with security that have caused them to stop playing for a time, too. Even those who are considered mild mannered and who usually are not argumentative. This isn't an isolated incident. There is no lack of information, just a pattern we see.
     
  13. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    What about Spartacus, Candles, Trickster and few other previous dev team members?
    Do they still play this game on a regular basis?
    I know some of them quit because of personal issues, but I am fairly sure a few also quit because of the community.

    I've been on this forums for 10 years.
    People jumped on the dev team publicly on forums for so many times that I begin to wonder if people think it's the right thing to do.

    People need to learn to simply walk away when his suggestions are not getting through. They never say : Okay, I still disagree but let's see what happens.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2016
  14. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    I love how you shield yourself with Spartacus despite being one of the most outspoken people going against him at the time.

    The king is dead, love live the king is hilariously in effect.
     
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  15. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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  16. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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  17. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    meh if this bothers you, try hosting a server for years lol, you can't be thinned skinned when involved with this mod, it is what it is, you should have known that, since like you said, you have been on the forums for 10 years.
    That being said I do wish it was not as volatile as it is, but that seems to be chasing windmills.
     
  18. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    I kept a generally friendly relationship with him, you can confirm this with him, if he thinks I was being a non-constructive little bitch then I'll take this from you.

    I gave him ideas and I even helped him testing for multiple times.

    https://forums.empiresmod.com/index.php?threads/empires-2-6-7a-released.19370/
    That thread contains one of my last few replies when he's still on the post.
    Yes, you put up with this community for years and you invested real money, not just time.
    You know I can't possibly respect you even more for that.

    But this is not my first day on the post as well.

    I have deleted one of my previous aggressive replies.
    I also feel bad that it had to come to this, so yeah, this will be my last reply in this thread and maybe about this whole drama.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2016
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  19. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    Doc, I consider you one of the good guys. I enjoy playing & chatting with you and know you've done a ton for the community. I hope this shit doesn't cause you to disappear. [Edited out by Tama; personal attacks against Paradox that have no bearing on the rest of this thread]

    Sorry to hear about your father.

    Vinnie
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2016
  20. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    seriously, this forum needs a mediator.
     
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