So far, we only have maps that are either classic maps (one with coms and research) and conquest maps (mostly things like urbanchaos, escort, and district). I suggest that we make a map where you actually have to do objectives like, in order to move on you HAVE to take down a wall, or HAVE to press 2 buttons to lower a bridge, etc. This might bring a new level of gameplay to empires. What do you guys think?
Objective based maps don't really strike me as being much different to current linear cap maps, especially ones like escort. I mean it's still 'fight your way to a location, hold it for long enough to complete the objective, repeat for next objective'. It's basically identical to escort if you assume each location will have a different layout, or any linear cap map considering you fight towards the enemy flag while the enemy tries to push you back, if you stay at their flag long enough, the field changes and you fight between two other flags.
Only flags have representation on the minimap. However, you can presumably cap flags using the i/o system, so if you merge them, it's just a matter of finding a mapper with a map to do it with.
This could be solved by adding more objects... CTF objectives, construct-and-hold objectives (construct the bomb and defend it for 30 seconds, say), destroy-the-structure objectives, etc. Add a proper timer that can be used, set, started and stopped by events in the game related to objectives, too. The hack of using tickets is a bit unintuitive and has severe limitations (like, say, it keeps you from using tickets normally.) Also, I think it's necessary to make an easy way to set it so one side has a comm and the other doesn't. It would be interesting, for instance, to have 'assault the fortress' maps where one side has a large fortified position with some buildings (that eventually respawn if destroyed, like in infantry maps), but no comm, while the other side has a comm, and has X minutes to win or the defenders lose. Additionally, if the defenders have a VF, they might also have a large 'automatic' res income. So the attackers start at a disadvantage (because the defenders might have a simple VF to start with, and res income), but because they have a comm they can gradually build up and pull ahead... and they have to do it quickly before time runs out or their CV is destroyed. The defenders might start with a few refs to supplement their initial income -- but they can't replace them after they're gone. So the initial fight would be over those refs; then, once the attackers have taken them, they'd siege the fortress while getting better and better tanks. Anyway, I think variations on that theme could actually be a lot of fun. This can be solved with clear minimap icons, or with brief map-specific text reminding you of your current objective that appears each time you spawn.
Yes I know you can add different things, but how are any of them different from CTF? Construct the bomb and defend it for 30 seconds is exactly the same as capture the flag and hold it until you can take the next flag. Destroy the structure is exactly like capture the flag because you get to a place and hold it long enough to blow up the structure. All objectives are capture and hold.
Theowningone made a plugin in which you could do that in Empires. A miniature version of the CV floated above the CV which you could 'capture' by touching the CV. The goal was to take it back to you're own CV.
CTF = Capture the Flag. And construct-and-hold has a very different feel from simple king-of-the-hill. If you play Enemy Territory, for example, you can tell. Also, "grab a flag, hold until you grab the next flag" is a joke on Escort. Nobody tries to recapture the flags. "Two team vs. CP" with both players competing over flags also has a very different feel from one team clearly being on the defense or the offense. It leads to a style of gameplay where one side rushes the objective, then constructs / holds it against enemy assaults for a set amount of time, for instance. The timer keeps things interesting by ensuring that things don't stall at that one point for too long (unlike the endless back-and-forth you see with dueling king-of-the-hill or whatever.)
Maybe I didn't make it clear, but I also intended for these new objective mechanisms to be used for classic maps (or half-classic maps, where only one side has a comm.)
Sorry to disappoint you friend. I totally plan on continue working on Arena after Ovaries is finished.
I HAVE played enemy territory, and I don't see any difference between objective types. You still go to a place, clear out the enemy until you can get the objective, and then go to another place, the only possible difference is your CTF where you have to do that all in one life. Even escorting the tank doesn't feel different because you just wait for the damn thing to get repaired once you've killed all the people, it's arbitrary, you win by killing everyone, not by completing the objectives, completing the objective is just a method of saying 'we killed everyone, because otherwise we wouldn't have been able to do the objective'. It doesn't change the game, you're still running and shooting people to get somewhere with the same guns on the same sort of terrain.
Depends on how it's done by the mapmaker really. If it's just a map in which you put flags than yes, Chris is right. But you can add elements of linear gameplay to the map by making capturing flags change the level, like opening or closing pathways. Objectives in general can affect the choices you can make this way. You can't chose which area to attack next, which to defend, which to reenforce etc. Instead at certain objectives you'd have to do specific stuff. At objective 1 we must try to hold it for 15 minutes, for the next one both teams race to get there first, the losing team from objective 2 must try to capture objective 3 where the winning team spawns, etc... I suppose for new players, or skilled shooters but with a very limited knowledge of tactics and strategy, predefined objectives are easier to deal with; which will lead to better teamwork on public servers (usually). Plus map defined objectives allow for nice effects to be added. However i realise i'm now more talking about adding areas with linear gameplay by having flags that control objectives. The flags would be redundant making this post off topic really.
That simply isn't true. The strategies for defending and taking different types of objectives are completely different. Flags, for instance, require that you hold the entire area extensively. You can't let anyone sneak in to a flag for even a few seconds or you lose. Flags also require much less teamwork than any other sort of objective, because a mad mindless rush can generally cap them if you push hard enough. Because flags can generally be captured pretty quickly by a bunch of people when they're there, the only way to really defend a flag is to sit right on top of it, turning it into a boring slogfest. Personally, I always thought that flags were the most boring and worst-designed of objective types because of this; the vanilla Enemy Territory maps generally only used them for very early easy objectives on early maps. Blowing up an objective (essentially a "build and hold" type of objective) is considerably harder and requires much more coordination; you can't simply blow up a vital objective in one push, because the length of the timer ensures that the enemy will have time to rally. Because one specific class is required to arm or disarm explosives in ET (and it's a fairly weak class in most other ways), you need to coordinate to defend or take those objectives effectively. Because of the time involved, the enemy also generally doesn't have to sit right on top of the objective -- they can spread out, which in turn occasionally lets coordinated assaults force their way in (or sneak in through a side entrance) and defend the planted explosive for enough time to destroy it. (And, in fact, it's not uncommon to see Fuel Dump or Seawall Battery won by a coordinated attack through the side entrance, without actually killing everyone. This is impossible on control-point maps, where everyone has to constantly sit on top of the control points.) Another major factor is that the people planting the bomb don't have to sit on top of it. They can spread out to protect the bomb they've placed instead of having everyone charge mindlessly into one flag while screaming GET ON TEH POINT FFS. For tanks, it is possible to 'defend' against them from a long way away by shooting the tank, or by planting explosives in its path to slow it down. More importantly, since tanks move over time (and tend to creep forwards over the course of the level), they ensure that the battlefield is constantly changing, rather than always getting one boring grind at a single point like you often see with control points. Another vital factor that made ET so much better than most other objective- based games was the way it presented multiple objectives at the same time -- generally, at any given time, there were multiple things you could do to advance your team's objectives. You could focus on the current main objective (advance the tank, blow up the objective), or focus on a sub-objective that would make it easier (destroy a wall, build a bridge, etc), or you could, sometimes, try to skip an objective, or set up an advantage for the next objective. This allowed for more strategic choices than just mindlessly rushing the next flag in a stupid human wave. Not all of those would directly translate into Empires, of course, but the idea of grabbing a key objective and holding it for a certain length of time before it 'locks' (like a bomb going off) and you can move on to the next one is a very good one, and not something present in any existing Empires maps. It allows the two sides to switch between attack and defense naturally over the course of the game. "Build the tower, then defend it for three minutes to open up the gates to the castle where the intel is stored", for instance, is interesting because it changes the way you play at various points in the mission.
You go to the place and kill the enemies, sometimes you don't win though because the game doesn't like the classes which survived long enough to get to the flag (it's still a flag, sometimes you just have to press the use key on it to capture it). Sometimes you have to kill more enemies afterwards. It's still go to place and kill enemies.
