Here's the problem I find with the grenadier, for a class who carries nothing but explosives it can barely take out any buildings. I have fired an entire load of mortar shots at a single refinery only to find myself out of ammo, and the refinery still up. Since the grenadier has lost the abilty to 9 mine, the ability to hurt buildings with a rocket launcher, and now I hear the mortar is getting a setup time, either increase the damage on the mortar, give the grenadier the abilty to throw rockets like grenades, or at least do something to the grenadier so he is useful against buildings. What I suggest is that you give grenadier C4 charges or something of the sort. Either that, or give the rocket launcher to abilty to deal damage at close range to buildings.
How about we give the grenadiers a Chuck Norris ability which gives it a 95% chance to destroy anything that it looks at?
I agree somehow. The grenadier has far too many mortar shells, and not enough rockets. Ofcourse, a single grenadier should not be able to take out a heavy tank 1 on 1 on an open field, but not being able to hurt an APC is just plain embarrasing.
Wait what? Shoot rockets at it dummy. If it's got better armor, yay for them. Also, ammo upgrade. Also, teammates can help shoot stuff.
yeah, and then you have no teammates in tanks, building stuff, or commanding you won't even be able to get ammo (that's how many grenadier shots you need to take out any nonpaper tank)
You obviously haven't played enough Grenadier. At max ammo without ammo increase, you do not have enough mortar shells to take down a refinery, and with ammo increase I'm left with enough mortar shells to make the enemy laugh. Killing a building to better left to Engineers, which is kind of stupid.
Move seismic grenades from the engie to the gren. Reduces nade spam (or requires at least two people [engie ammo box + gren seismic nade]) and gives the gren more anti-building power.
I whole hearted ly agree with Scardy Bob. Grens witbh sysmics and engy's with out. @ problems solved at once.
The grenadier has enough on their plate at the moment. They can damage structures, tanks, and infantry, all at a distance. They can set up minefields. They are the only class with any anti-mine capabilities. I think they have a bit too much at the moment, if anything... I'd rather see their primary focus (their anti-tank weapon) buffed, and some of the peripheral things like Defusal trimmed or given to other classes (like, say, scouts.) But as for buildings... you are complaining because you can't take down a building singlehandedly with a mortar. Stop and think about what you are complaining about for a moment. That is not something that you should be complaining about. There are only two classes capable of effectively killing buildings period, and engineers have to get up close to them, or build fairly weak ML turrets that have lots of disadvantages (easy to deal with, slow to kill structures, you only get one at a time, takes a long time to construct, etc.) It is not supposed to be easy to take a rax down. One person is not supposed to be able to take a rax down (and, indeed, seismics might be up for a nerf themselves.) That is why 9-mining was removed. Even the early tanks can take a while to take a rax down. Taking out buildings is not even the grenadier's primary purpose; they are primarily the anti-tank role. They can support the rest of their team in taking down a structure, and they can take out turrets, but they shouldn't be supermen capable of taking down a rax all on their own... Taking down a rax on your own is just not a valid thing to want to do. Even engineers, the current structure experts, are probably too good at it, and can still usually only do it with backup and at fairly close range. Expecting to be able to reliably take out a rax at mortar range when you have no support is madness. The grenadier absolutely should not get any better anti-structure weapons, certainly not seismics. If we are going to get a new anti-structure class, we should make it the scout, who needs something to do much more badly.
The major problem is that not enough players play as grenadiers in public games or change to that class if its really necessary. Count how often did you see alot of people camping behind a wall afraid of a turret because no one was grenadier or switched to that class. Count how often did you see a 3-5 vehicle rush with crappy armor winning cause nobody was grenadier or changed to that class. Count how often people only shot at the infrantry that spawns in enemy raxes (canyon chokepoint, happens every game) and not at the rax itself as grenadier. The grenadier class is totaly overpowered if people would play it as often as they play rifleman. The balance of the grenadier relys only on the fact that you dont have many of them in a pub games.
You have a point there Aquillion, now that I think about it you're right. Edit: Wait a second, I just realized something. You can throw a grenade almost as far as a damn mortar shot, if not farther.
Yeah but the point with a mortar is that you are supposed to be able to hit the enemy from above more, throwing a grenade exactly behind a wall and not over it so it lands far behind is almost impossible. This is where the mortar should shine if it had deployment time so people would be forced to support whit it instead of killing individual riflemen with their currently in game Quake3 grenade launcher. But if redone the focus should be to root out enemy in heavy cover so the riflemen can finish them off. /End of answer to quote. The only change that need's to be done is to set deployment time in mortar and give it a splash buff and make that weapon more depending on artillery feedback skill and team spotting. He already have access to both pistols as anti-infantry means. Also in the only class which can be researched to get better. And i also second the move to give scouts defuse instead of grenadier, it makes more sence if you think about it. The grenadier is a unit with long range anti-tank weapons and support weapons as primary weapons, only has pistols to defend himself, why should he be forced to make it to the front line to defuse mines. But scouts by their name and purpose are supposed to be the guys that runns ahead spotting threats to their squad/team and should try to neutralise the threats if possible. Overall making the scout to a front line support unit would be nice. His tower sabotage skill is gold if used well during an assault with his team, giving him defusal would only aid this more . And also their grenades also support their idea of being the front line specialist unit, how many times have you seen wall fights between riflemen, engineer and grenadiers that are standing at each walls with shooting at each other? emp_isle west hills for example. I have seen it alot, but ONE scout with smoke grenade can allow their side to blind the enemy, and then storm with grenades and assault weapons and with cover during the assault take down the enemy at their wall. Everytime i am scout i am it for the smoke grenade, especially on emp_istrict402 in the center standoff, smoke the enemy at their cover and your team can storm with out being cut down by HMG fire.
Mortar, see rocket sniping thread. Yeah but smoke will be able to conceal the enemy so they can't shoot any accurate fire, you could flank and they wouldn't know because they only see smoke. You should use smoke grenades more in the role i said before commenting. I have used it in heavy combat to great effect, as a breaking through tool.
Smoke and Flash nades suffer the same problem as in Counter Strike and I personaly dont see any solution for that problem.
Well, in case of smoke and flash (specially smoke) it is VERY rare to see a scout using it correctly. I've only seen it twice when a really squad-oriented team with active communication took the help of smoke screens to move from A to B in an intense firefight. And that's probably the only time ever where smoke was useful as heck.
How about adding a seismic-like warhead to the mortar, or a seismic-like skill to the Grenadier? Come to think of it, a seismic skill would probably shut-up the pro-rocket sniping crowd too. Overall, I find the grenadier to be pretty tough, and has a good selection of skills. Like all classes (except Engie) they need ammo resupplies to do their job to the fullest.
