Right now, the grenadier's main task is mining, and it only really works in escort and district. The engineers seem to do the job of destroying enemy turrets quite well with their own MLs, so that makes the grenadier's RPG/GL see less use. In maps like emp_duststorm, the class is needed even less, and that's why nobody uses it. When an enemy tank has found itself in the middle of our base and we'd really need grenadiers, it turns out we have none of them. Grenadiers suck at close quarters infantry combat, and they can't repair vehicles, so pretty much only artillery users pick the class. Not a very big slice of the pie, should I say. The GL isn't very effective in taking out a bunch of enemy infantry; you'll need the feedback skill to hit anything at all without getting snipered in the head, but even then you'll be lucky to take out some half-healthed guy. Also, engineer build-kit > GL. The engineer can start building a turret and then upgrade it all the way to level 3 even if a grenadier started to bomb it. So; increase the damage. Make it 120% of what it currently is. To give the grenadiers more abilities, they should be given either satchel charges or normal grenades. I'd prefer the satchel charges, as that could make some interesting situations, like blowing up a trail of tanks crossing a bridge, which, unlucky for the enemy, happened to be filled with satchel charges. Another possibility to make the grenadier a fun class, would be to give him a timebomb. He could carry only one at a time, and shouldn't be able to place another one before the first one has exploded. The timer should be set to 3-5 minutes, and it should have a ticking sound. Any infantry class could defuse the bomb (eg. C4 in Counter-Strike), engineer and grenadier would do it 2x faster. The explosion should be powerful enough to take out an entire building (eg. barracks or VF). The ticking should be loud enough for the enemy to notice it upon entering the building.
I would think that giving the grenadier a fully-automatic weapon might give people more reason to play it. Problem is that it would have to take up a slot that is currently occupied by the rocket launcher or the mortar. Here's what I can come up with sitting here: Slot 1 - Pistol (unchanged) Slot 2 - Selection of 2 or 3 SMGs and/or rifles Slot 3 - Selection of either the rocket launcher or the mortar (both slightly tweaked) Slot 4 - Mines (unchanged) Or, if you're twitchy about having to give up either the rocket launcher or the mortar: Slot 1 - Pistol (unchanged) Slot 2 - Selection of the rocket launcher or a rifle with an underslung grenade launcher attachment (impact detonation) Slot 3 - Selection of the mortar or a sturdy SMG (can't decide what the SMG should have to compensate for the loss of the mortar; perhaps hand grenades thrown as a secondary fire?) Slot 4 - Mines (unchanged) Obviously, for the second, you would either have to pick the rocket launcher or the mortar. Giving players both the rifle and SMG would turn them into a walking meat grinder. Keep in mind that I just pulled these ideas out of my ass while sitting here, too; they're certainly not flawless suggestions. On that note... Pick away.
Maybe perhaps grenadier can sustain less damage from explosives in combat ? *Tanks blows grenadier 20ft into the air* *grenadier slams into ground* *gets back up and says "That the best you can do !?"* *Tanks blows grenadier 20ft into the air*
...You're joking, right? Not only is it the only class that can drop enemy vehicles by his lonesome, but with an ammo upgrade can drop MULTIPLE vehicles by his lonesome. He has access to mines which are incredibly devastating at the early-mid game, and can have a serious effect in late game. He has a mortar that can destroy buildings from a safe distance, destroy turrets with a couple of blows, and if like me, can predict and pick off enemy vehicles with it. He has a rocketlauncher. It's not powerful enough that it has an unlimited range, but you have the OPTION of guided rockets. Which, if you know what you're doing, can chase down an enemy tank. He has access to both pistols, but really the default is the only thing worth shaking a stick at. It's got a decent punch, great accuracy, and it's tons of fun to melee with. Grenadiers are very well balanced. Give them anymore, and they'll be too powerful.
Like I said mines are only useful in push maps. And what about destroying vehicles? I can also be a rifleman, then I can destroy the entire enemy infantry forces because I have enough ammo to shoot all of the soldiers in the head, at least 5 times. The question is: can I do it? Well, at least it's a more realistic goal than trying to destroy a vehicle with an RPG/GL, or even MULTIPLE ones. Also I can't change the poll, and I wouldn't bother anyway. It's a vote about HOW to buff the grenadier, not IF. You can express your opinions about the IF question by replying, like you did. I'll add the disagreeing option next time then.
Are you saying that you've never destroyed a vehicle or turrent as a gernader??? Sad stuff man... And mines are very usefull. Have you ever placed a few in front of your enemies vehicle factory?
I a few times, but most of the chances I had to do that, the vehicle would just drive away or then turn it's guns at me and chase me to death, or then the driver jumped out and shot me with a rifle, against which I was pretty much defenseless with a damn pistol. It's not an impossibility for me to kill an SMG/rifle-equipped soldier with a pistol, though, but the result is usually my death when in CQB. The few times I have managed to destroy vehicles as a grenadier was shooting a bypassing jeep with the RPG or GLing an abandoned APC, and something else like that.
Try shooting at them from a range. Like in duststorm, get on one of the hills in the middle and shoot at passing tanks. Any time a tank heads your way, you can duck under the hills and even place mines at the enterances to the middle.
I feel if they make ML's stop shooting buildings and they can only target units, then grenadiers will recover their importance. I would also like the option to choose satchels OR mines in that weapon slot.
I have damaged some tanks that way, but after 1, 2, 3 hits they all pull back or start moving wherever, and I can't hit them anymore. Good idea. Perhaps the grenadier coud also replace either the RPG or the GL with an AR or an SMG?
i would like to see a body armour rank upgrade for the grenadier. No automatic weapons, he has riflemen for that.
i think the grenadier is great. Its great at taking down enemy douchebag noobs who insist on building paper light tanks and AFVs early on. Great for taking down turrets and enemy buildings. Its vunerable to infantry as it should be.
So long as they're given no anti-infantry weapons, I'm perfectly fine with any buffs to the Grenadier class. >;D
I wouldnt want to see a buff, maybe slightly more ammo, but when grenadiers combine forces they pwn badly :<
Only thing i would want of the gren's is a damage buff later on in the game. Ever tried to kill a heavy or med tank with composite or reactive or what ever advanced armor they got? Ive had increased ammo as gren and wasted all my rockets trying to destroy one med tank. Granted it was moving at the time and i was probably hitting different sides of the thing but considering how wild the rockets go when you adjust left or right by less than a degree. I consider myself lucky to hit the damn thing at long range when its moving. but back on subject: maybe letting them choose different ammo that counters certian armor types?
I'll point you to my Big Suggestion thread for my views on the Grenadir, wouldn't be so much of a Buff but rather adapting their weapons towards diffrent targets. But later on, I did agree with the idea of Satchel Charges, and I do think the Grenadir should get them to replace the Mines with Remote Detonated Sticky bombs that have the same power as Mines and have a lower ammo supply (-1?). Also, on the older forums, I did suggest giving the Grenadir access to a special 3rd pistol type that would be like a Mac10/11 for the NF(Rag tag) and the more professional and sleeker looking TMP/BMP-9 for the BE. And yes, the RPG needs to be stronger vs. Stuctures, but as Anti-Armour, it's scary strong. I lost two layers of Dual Composite to one RPG shell, then lost the tank after three sine the armour was down because I got it stuck. But, if my "Anti-" kits don't work, I'd suggest Artillery cannon upgrades would also increase the range and power of the Grenadir's Mortar.
If you want to destroy a building, drop four mines outside of the Brendoni Barracks. One for each doorway. You get a kill and inflict heavy damage. And there's plenty of ammo to keep going with JUST the mines. As for the mines only being good on the push maps- are you crazy? They've got plenty of uses. Drop them around the ruins in dust storm, or through middle. They're very useful if you know where the enemy is coming from. Which means you need to work as a team with the scout or a good commander. Grenadiers are teamwork classes. They're ALL teamwork classes.
Gren underpowered?? obviously you've never played on a server with me :^D The only things I would add (if I had to add things): Make rocket and mortar do the same damage. Doesn't make much sense to me that the "fall" of a mortar does a whopping 40 extra damage. I suggest both do 100 (right in the middle of current setup) Add an extra "infantry" gren skill. Right now I go Extra Ammo -> Defuse -> Health/Speed -> Speed/Stamina...it would be nice to have something like "dig in" or "hide" (but not dig in or hide) to compliment the defuse skill -Matt
