Bio - intended effect of repairing

Related - I agree with Flasche that bio is way too powerful against infantry. Maybe the damage over time against infantry could have a floor at say 25% of health, but should continue to pull you down towards 25% even if you were being healed? That way it doesn't automatically kill everyone in range with no chance to counter it, but does make everyone easy to kill for as long as the effect lasts (plus the time taken to go and find an engy or armoury).

 

Bio is fine versus infantry.

 

bio ML is not nearly as effective at infantry rape as dual HE or nukes are, and both of those weapons are far more effective at killing buildings (and HE is also good against tanks). I don't really see nerfing it against infantry as a good idea.

IMO there's a bit of a weapon triangle right now when it comes to tank weapons. There's 3 different kinds of targets that you'll encounter with tanks. Buildings, infantry, and other tanks. Most MGs are good at only one thing in the triangle - either infantry for 50 cal or tanks for DU and HEMG (though they can kind of kill buildings if you have enough of them, but their DPS against buildings is hardly stellar). The major exception is bio MG, but IMO that weapon is a bit underpowered in general so its versatility can't really shine.

Anyway, most cannons and MLs fulfill 2 roles quite easily, and a few occupy the middle of the triangle where they are effective against all 3 types. MLs are, in general, effective against tanks and buildings at various ranges, but poor against infantry. Ranged cannon and plasma cannon behave somewhat like this as well (plasma cannon is its own problem, but that's for another discussion). Nukes are effective against buildings and infantry (and in some circumstances, tanks, but for the sake of this discussion we will say they aren't generally effective against tanks). HE Cannon has the unique property of occupying the exact center of the triangle. it is equally effective against all possible targets in the triangle.

Bio ML is totally unique from all other weapons in that it is theoretically very effective against tanks and infantry, but not so against buildings. No other weapon in the game occupies this position. IMO one of the most important things a tank can do is kill buildings, and this is a role reserved mostly for missiles, especially from NF. So if a primary weapon can't do what tanks are basically designed for, you'd expect that weapon to be devastatingly effective at everything else.

Basically what I'm saying is that from a heuristic perspective, Bio ML's relation to other weapons pretty much dictates that it has to be a very strong counter to both tanks and infantry in order to compensate for the fact that it can't kill buildings (in fact, the entire bio tree is awful at killing buildings). Therefore, bio ML needs to remain as effective as it is at killing people, because if it didn't instagib them, there'd barely be a reason to use it at all (there are plenty of better pure anti-tank weapons in the game, and some better all-around weapons as well as you can see by reviewing what I have stated already).

 

There is an often repeated (but never implemented) idea that a portion of all damage done to a tank affects the hull. This would make any Engineers wanting to repair a few plates of armor first have to repair the hull damage. In the case of the Bio effect on tanks, if the hull damage were ever implemented then the Bio effect would not stop until after the hull had been fully repaired, which would boost the effectiveness of the Bio effect without increasing the damage it does in battle.

 

The rate at which engineers repair armor is easily changed in the scripts. Changes to how bio ML damage is repaired might require code though.

 

Again, what flasche said. Even in the last stages of a round, when you are overwhelmingly outgunned, it would be nice to be able to play, rather than run around hopelessly taking arty / bio / nuke damage without even being able to participate in the game in any meaningful sense.

 

derp put a std cannon on with it and you can now kill buildings

 

are you seriously suggesting that standard cannon with no backup weapon is a viable alternative to any upgraded cannon or missile other than bio ML?

 

it's lightweight and it'll kill buildings fine.

 

lol and he's a dev?

 

If you're driving tanks with only one weapon, I'm afraid I'm not letting you drive any more pickled.

 

ugh, my point was bio ML + std cannon compared to standard cannon + ANY OTHER RESEARCHED FUCKING WEAPON is no comparison at all when it comes to destroying buildings.

A light tank with UMLs and a standard cannon can kill a barracks with 2 salvos + shells, and I doubt a bio ML + std cannon light tank even has enough ammo to kill a ref.

 

So if tanks could only be repaired after 10 seconds of not taking damage (exception being the bio dot), that would address many issues at once correct?

Repair pad and engi tool both would remove dot after 10 seconds of repairing (so from 0-10 seconds they have no effect, 10-20 seconds they are repairing against the dot, and 20+ it's fully functional repairing). Thoughts?

 

yea, seems right i guess