Binoculars - Rifleman or Scout

Discussion in 'Implemented' started by wealthysoup, Jan 13, 2016.

?

Which Class should have binoculars as equipment?

  1. Scout (Old way)

  2. Rifleman (Current way)

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. wealthysoup

    wealthysoup Lead Tester

    Messages:
    1,857
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    As outcome from the last poll the Assault/Scout class will be renamed to Scout in the next update.

    Simple question - Which class should be given the binoculars?

    If we give the rifleman binoculars then the scout gets armour.
    If we give the scout binoculars then the rifleman gets armour.


    It used to be that the scout had binoculars and rifleman had armour. In a recent patch A year ago this was changed (incorrectly) so that the scout had armour and the rifleman had binoculars. As it was done incorrectly neither class had the items. The outcome of this poll will decide whether this change is fixed or reverted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
  2. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,823
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Doesn't that armor not actually do anything? I thought it just showed that the class has resistance to bullets.

    Honestly I'd just give both classes binoculars, you can't do much of anything with them and people complain about removing useless things, so give everyone useless things. If we had super huge maps it probably would be cool for all classes to have binoculars, but that's a thought for another day.
     
  3. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

    Messages:
    8,381
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Binox don't do anything?! You get points for spotting targets that die shortly there after. Just like if you killed it... except the multi-points for vehicles you only get one. Don't remember if you get points for buildings that pop. Anyways... wtf is rifleman gana do with binox... thats retarded. Scout with binox just makes sense. Scout with armor makes sense too but, rifleman with binox just no.

    If there was a clear role for binox other then just seeing slightly farther and its built in spotting that gives points, then we can have a discussion about it going to rifleman otherwise its silly.

    Now if someone with a binox sitting close to a gren with mortar out spots something and keeps it trained on target I would expect the gren to get a target recital to aim at for the mortar shell to hit the target. Or even binox can paint targets and missiles that are dumb fired in that direction lock on to the target. With no lockon time.

    So fucking have a missile shotgun tank and a scout in the distance painting the target.. Fire and all missiles go after target as long as its painted.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
  4. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,823
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    0
    See, that's useless. Any player would rather you do some actual shooting either as a scout or a more useful class like gren or rifleman rather then sit there trying to soak up some free points. Don't tell me anything about wages either, that's a crappy way to farm it.

    You haven't really given a good reason not to include them on rifleman, I'll give a few as to why just give them to him. Rifleman doesn't have anything on his 4th weapon slot just like scout so it would fill an empty slot, giving a zoom to him wouldn't be the worse thing because they don't have scout rifle and they can't really sit waaaaaaaaaaaaay out in the distance being useless with it unlike scout with scout rifle, scout already has a zoom in that scout rifle(this one always felt like redundancy to me).

    The only reason your giving is it feels wrong, that's simply the silliest argument I keep hearing whenever it comes to empires because it really isn't much of an argument. A better one is we don't want 2 classes sitting around being dumb and useless with a piece of equipment that really has no game altering effect, there, made the argument for you. But if you say that, or at least I'm saying it, might as well remove it from scout to make them ever so slightly less useless too.

    Still think scout rifle needs scope removed.

    Signed Lazybum
     
  5. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

    Messages:
    8,381
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well no, you were saying its useless.. its not if you can use it to farm points while also highlighting enemy on the map that stays highlighted for more then the normal spot time. You could even squad farm points with all scouts spotting the same target that dies. Now if you mean its mostly useless I can agree but its not completely useless. If we give it a reason to exist then it can stay. I do believe that it probably shouldn't exist though.
     
  6. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

    Messages:
    1,368
    Likes Received:
    156
    Trophy Points:
    0
  7. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    13,299
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    0
    its not useless, you can annoy the shit out of your team with arty target requests ... :D

    nah jk. it fits with the scunt best because its surveillance/intelligence too. not so much as what it was intended true, but its kinda handy to tag the enemy cv for 2minutes (or was it only one? well at least way longer than ordinary spotting)

    what people fail to understand is that contrary to normal spotting it can only show a single unit. but thats independent on which class would get it.
     
  8. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,823
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Things like this is what causes certain people ludicrous levels of rage. If these people are spotting who's killing? If it's squad vs squad clearly the squad without the useless spotter is going to win.

    Didn't know about it keeping it on the minimap for so long, but it doesn't feel like it's all that useful really. Not when it's so easy for a scout to just slink right into a base and simply auto spot everything for arty tanks. Maybe what flasche said about spotting cv or possibly some random apc heading towards a base, but it's still an item that really shouldn't be used, as in people keep holding the binoculars out.

    Still see no reason for both classes not have it.
     
  9. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    13,299
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    0
    you cant do that. you cant spot the whole base, it only keeps one target. as soon as you spot you lose the other, try it out.
    the only use i found so far is to keep the enemy cv on the minimap. the target stays for quite a while. i dont think its really this useful though, you could simply tell over voice, and in a majority of rounds you know where the enemy cv is anyway.
    maybe in an edge case on a chokepoint map when its really stalemating it could be useful for "precision artillery" - but lets be honest thats not gonna happen or seldom enough to waste a 2nd thought on this.

    all in all its a rather useless item. i still always used it as scout to show a single important target because it takes 2 seconds and lasts for a felt eternity (srsly try out). but it was never more than something to do when i didnt have something to shoot at. nothing i would ask anyone on my team do actively do because i would expect some sort of advantage over the enemy. the disadvantage of scouts against almost everything (except for a single saboteur as passenger in an apc, but he doesnt need binocs, theres no time for that) outweights this minor gain. its only something you should do occasionally because you can do it, if you feel the urgent need to be useless and play a scout not in an apc softening rax for your team to take out. (you are allowed in a jeep when you cant afford apcs, only excuse - everything else is fooling around and youd be a million times more useful somewhere else as a different class)

    but what gives, give it to everyone, its not like youd have to pay money for it ^^
    or remove it. or leave it to the scout or rifleman or both. binocs are really the least concern with empires except for "requesting artillery strike at my position" or how that voiceover goes :D

    i really only voted scout because "scout has binocs".
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2016
  10. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,823
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I meant that thing where all enemy buildings in close enough proximity to you show up on your team's minimap. It's actually quite large, feels like a whole square at least. If scout is hiding and sabing the whole base anyway their whole base is going to show up, without using the binocs or whatever.
     
  11. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    13,299
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    0
    oh.

    reading failure on my end. but its like that for all classes isnt it? so this only is an issue with hide and its a completely different topic - imo you turn too transparent. while 60% transparency might not sound much, it actually means more or less invisible ingame.
     
  12. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

    Messages:
    3,241
    Likes Received:
    215
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I always thought it would be great if scout could be redesigned as a powerful Squad leader class. Go on ahead, get your hide on, maybe broadcast spots as squad targets or something. Going forward to recce a spot for the squad, provide fire support from a flanking position etc... I think I've just played too much ARMA - not likely to get that much coordination in Empires I think.

    But I always thought scout would be good orchestrating an assault. As it is scout sab is OP and very niche. But I guess with scout hide the way it is now you can already do this stuff - its just no-one does because you need a very cooperative and patient squad that will immediately follow all orders implicitly. Even the best players don't want to do it, everyone is more concerned with the copy-paste tactics that involve "stacking" squad abilities by switching lead.

    I often wonder if switching squad leader should reset squad points for this reason. In fact I think that would be a good idea. I may make a suggestion about it. The old Squad hide, squad hide, squad revive, sabotage, squad arty, sticky stun type "tactic" is really just exploitative to me. Granted you need a very organised squad and some good amount of points but it isn't really skill or teamwork that prevails when these things get pulled off. It is just a way salty old vets can do a bunch of shit that probably wasn't intended.
     
  13. complete_

    complete_ lamer

    Messages:
    6,436
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    0
    it would be nice if you could use the binoculars to send a target to a grenadier squad leader for arty strikes
     
    A-z-K likes this.
  14. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    13,299
    Likes Received:
    168
    Trophy Points:
    0
    idk, arty strikes out of nowhere? itd be cool if they would work as intended and give you an arty cam similar to bf42 ;)
     
  15. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

    Messages:
    8,381
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Copy arty strike squad skill to binox. Give it ammo count, and reload timer, and lower damage. Bonus points for different colored binox call different type of arty strikes. HE, Plasma, Engey grenades.
     
  16. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,823
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I like how the thread about which class should get binoculars, a simple question, is turning into how to make binoculars not a crap thing. At least this one has a poll, so no matter where the discussion goes there's that shiny beacon giving an actual answer to the original question.
     
    Neoony likes this.
  17. complete_

    complete_ lamer

    Messages:
    6,436
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    0
    well its kind of a simple poll (as wealthy pointed out): which class should we give this useless item to? and should the guy who shoots people get armor?
     
  18. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    4,823
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But that armor doesn't actually do anything, it just better shows the class has bullet resists. Which means it would be valid to put it on scout too because he has a decent bullet resist(currently, I have no idea if these things are getting changed around next patch) 20% vs rifle's 30%.

    Actually it'd be nice if that armor did do something. I know catface mentioned something about selecting armor type for infantry, I guess that would be neat, but it also sounds like it should be more of a separate item type to the rest of the stuff because it sounded like all classes would get it. So it needs it's own special something, somethign that makes rifle more rifleman-y.

    Something in the armor lets you keep bullets fired at you? So you don't run out of ammo as fast? Getting shot activates some type of very short duration aura, could be anything really. Damage regens your stamina so you can sprint into cover faster? Armor is loaded with explosives, dying causes a small explosion damaging nearby infantry for a small amount(NOT INSTANT DEATH). Armor has a special healing gel, causing you to regen a certain pertange of damage taken over a small period of time. Armor has a small chance of deflecting shots, causing no damage.

    Hey, if we are having a discussion on making binocs slightly more useful might as well make something that really does absolutely nothing do something. Now some of those ideas are probably op or more suited as an actual skill, but you get the idea.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2016
  19. OuNin

    OuNin Member

    Messages:
    3,703
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Would be cool if
    1) Player who spawns as a squad leader regardless of class gets binocs
    2) Binocs show detailed information about targets spotted, like inf health/class/ammo, vehicle weapons, etc.'

    Personally as a frequent squad leader I've needed better sight to give attack orders (maybe switch "need artillery" to a hard enemy target with less cooldown?) and additional info would be A++ for teamwork
     

Share This Page