APC spawns: a new alternative

Enable APC spawns once a radar is placed for 3 minutes.

That way, early-game rushes can be mostly prevented while still giving APCs that extra layer of functionality without sacrificing research strategies.

Pros:
APCs do what they should do again.
Moar lulz!
Partybus

Cons:
List me any...

Alternatives:
Once ANY research is done.

(dons flame retardent suit)

 

No, APC spawns are enabled all the time.

 

Does nobody learns from the experiences from emp_provinggrounds?

The two APCs with spawm are mostly used for a base switch or quick victory.

On a full server you will have nearly at once the resources for VF and APC on any map.
Is it the intention of the devs to have more early rushes?

 

if said rushes are with quality gameplay (apc rushes are fun and exiting for both teams agreeing that the surviving team probably had the most fun), and easy counter able if expected

i would hope yes

 

hard counter for apc rush: engineer dropped ML's...or rpg.

If one team is pussy enough to get owned by an apc rush, they deserve to die.

Back in 2.12 only hsm's apc rushes were pain in the ass because ha raped at it. And it was never a problem because it would just end with quick end.

And on the plus side of apc spawns: epic comebacks

 

I started empires at 2.12 on my very old PC and so I haven't played much. So I don't remember the good old times.
But if the experience was that it was fun, then why not add it again.
Question is only, why it was removed later?

 

Because most games would be over very quickly as rushing an APC toward the enemy start base as soon a possible would become the best tactic.

 

If you were not prepared for them you lost your starting base as your team had moved out, now taking into account the buffed armours and the fact that the commander is stuck at start base for the beginning of the match means that there is a good chance of getting the enemy commander as well as their barracks.
The leadership skills required to carry this out are minimal, build VF, get APC, rush and win. The only hard part is finding a decent driver with defusal and getting the team to spawn in it, although the latter can be done by recycling the starting barracks for res to build the APC in the first place.

 

god i hate this. You keep whining about this, yet its like 1% of matches ended with an apc rush. And most of them were fun.
There were several suggestions about disabling apc spawns for some start time. And it takes 2/3 rpg shots, one sticky to kill paper apc for god sake!

I'm so sick of people whining about empires balance, "gamebreakingthings" and so on.

Only gamebreaking thing is, when other team gets little advantage and you cannot turn tide of the battle because raxes cost retarded amount of res and you dont have last mean of comeback - apc spawns.

 

I have to fucking agree, the only reason why the APC spawns were taken out was, and I will repeat this over, and over. HEAD. SHOT. MASTER. Yes, he won 8 games in a row like this before, but you know what!? THE OTHER TEAM HAD MANY MANY CHANCES TO STOP HIM.

 

I think you are misunderstanding my position, I am not against APC spawns, but rather against having them from the start of the match. The suggestion of having them activate once one item is researched is one which I can wholeheartedly support.
You can only do that if you can get someone to wait in the base on the off chance that they will APC rush you there instead of just taking the choke point. If the APC goes to the choke point they have a cheaper spawn point there while you still have to construct your barracks and some of your better players are doing nothing in your main. If most of you team went engineer/rifleman/scout then you have a problem as the APC can just stay at range from your infantry and you cannot change class until you have your barracks up, while the enemy can keep spawning from the APC to attack you.

Bring back APC spawns without fully thinking it through will lead to imbalances, pressing ahead with an idea without fully discussing all the implication is what brought us the MKIIs and their associated problems.

If you are relying on a single strike such as an APC or ninja to win the game then you have already lost, and what can be fun for one person can be extremely irritating for the other team. I lost because no one mentioned that an APC got past our lines?
Also as I mentioned I support the activation of APC spawns by researching any item, that means that for most of the match you will have APC spawns, just that you won't have them from the start.

 

(radar + 3 minutes + remove tickets = apc spawn) = 2.12 levels of action and games that dont end cause you have a couple of guys getting killed 40 times a map.

i lurve this idear.

 

I think the empires community do not remember the old days...

HSM didnt win each time... rather... he lost a hideous ammount of times aswell... both in organized games and in public ones.

The reason i was totally disgusted by early mass-apc rushes was due to the very basics of it... its a win or lose situation. Either team A win after 5 min thanks to their rush... or they totally fail due to losing all their resources and get countered shortly afterwards.

everyone remembers the "epic apc rushes"... noone remembers the "epic defeats"...

i remember getting a new set of armor (which takes fuck all in time) followed by instantly getting an apc and drive it past the enemy lines to totally devastate their mainbase / controlled areas.

Regen was hideously good for this... i could go alone and care fuck all about the enemy infantry and tanks thanks to having enough regen and armor to stand against the dmg comming at me... and its the same situation nowdays aswell. +that reflective is just as good now.
(note: tanks without a good engine = overheats before they can do any serious dmg)

When an apc cost fk all and a rax cost fk all, then there aint much stopping ya from getting an apc and just drive it to the enemy main and let some engis spawn to set up a ninja rax right at em.
it cost 200 res afterall, mk2's cost nearly 3x as much.

I enjoyed the fact that it took a long time before you could access apc spawns nowdays, perhaps the way of doing it was a bit poorly... id put the apc spawns as an addition to the mk2's given from upgraded chassis instead.

But none the less i think that apc spawns should NOT be unlocked in the start... it just promote fagotry rushes which shouldnt be there in the begining.

and just to make myself clear, by fagotry rushes im not only refering to mass apc rushes, just apc rushes in general which allows a large portion ur team to be focused at a single point without the requirement of being there to begin with.

Atm its like this:
apc spawns = tanks with armor beats your unupgraded apc
armor + apc spawns = tanks with armor and engine (or enemy apcs with armor and hmg) beats your armored apc
armor + engine + apc spawns = tanks/anti-veichle apcs are common or resources are available for your team to counter the rush easily.
armor+HMG+apc spawns = without engine the apcs can easily be overrunned (if they are too offensive) or at the very least stopped (if they are defensive / got brain) by focusing ur tanks/anti-veichle apcs on them.
armor + engine + HMG + apc spawns = mk2's kick their ass. (well.... sometimes HMG win against mk2s too...)

iow... there is always a good counter earlygame against the apc's if the enemy buy tanks.


Why is the apc spawns being given right in the start?

am i the only one understanding that going physics (which totally fkin own everything atm) and getting HMG apcs is going to be the most effective strategy later on?
reflective/fission engine is already the best mix of armor and engine, since ur already in projectile physics for the armor u may aswell get that HMG while ur at it.
if ur BE you get the option of a ranged cannon for your mk2's and if ur NF you stay with HMG to nukes.

IOW... the way it is atm. (with NF ocationally going bio)

im all up for removing the APD research, but dont give it in the start, its just going to be a massive fail that way.

and this is comming from the guy who everyone bitched at for being a gay apc rusher in 2.12.

 

(radar + research mechanical + remove tickets = apc spawn) = 2.12 levels of action and games that dont end cause you have a couple of guys getting killed 40 times a map.

I tweaked the original idea some, what you guys think?

This will bring back the fucking awesomeness of killing paper apcs. If the comm decides just to research mechanical first, then go to another tree for armor/engine, there will be paper apcs out there for a few minutes, which lends some tense moments to the game. Tense for the team salivating to kill it (like I do with paper tanks) and the team that has taken the risk in trying to use it.

It also means that you wont have apcs until you have a radar, negating what people dont like about early apc spawns, and keeps them vulnerable for a few minutes if/when they show up.

The remove tickets from classic maps part - that's just an idea that I think is super valid in so many ways.

 

Have APC spawns enabled once you drop a VF

 

you can have them just as well be on from gamestart then

 

hint: troll.