Ok, so nerfing RPG's against buildings isn't necessarily to stop APC rushing(as the grens could still pile into the APC and mortar the shit out of a base) it would be to stop RPG sniping.. As for the APC rushing, more expensive and less armor should be the option here. But I mean at the end of the day like everyone is saying I think the bad com's and bad teams are to blame.. Lets say we nerf the APC's and make them more expensive, great. But is it really different for 2 teams of grens to climb into 2 jeeps go in and do the exact same thing? or 3 jeeps for that matter spreading out the grens even more making them harder to kill? Ultimately ppl need to clue in that this is going to happen and prepare accordingly. Not to say we shouldn't nerf the apcs, but the problem will probably persist in some way or another
Wasn't the RPG originally anti-vehicle and anti-building and the mortar anti-infantry? Those are the roles that they serve in real life, if I remember correctly.
Well, not entirely. It depends on the ammunition loaded, but all three work well depending on the situation, except for Mortar vs. Armour, I can't imagine that working in the real world other than a surprise mortar attack to disable unmanned parked vehicles.
In a real life situation the mortar works best in either sieges (possible) and large sale infantry attacks (5 player rush?) I think it should stick to sieging then.
well you would want rocket launcher loaded with anti-armor rocket against tanks mortar with HE agaisnt infantry and buildings
anyone else think the rocket should be better against infantry? i was reading about the SAS the other day and they use rockets all the time against enemy troop concentrations. I think the splash damage at least should do pretty bad damage, even if it only takes a direct hit to kill them.
Summary of the essay (this is for your knight I'm trying :D ) Game ends to quickly that sucks. Problem is not inherent in the apc but in this bloodthursty international culture we all pay homage too. Nerf grens and they wont be effective against tanks. Most of all ** It takes the Commander to direct the Squad Leaders to direct the Squadmates.** It takes balanced (not as much about skill but effort) teams. Is it the maps? That is all of merit the rest is banter... I've been playing empires for pretty close to a year give or take a month or two. These rushes have come in forms of turrets light tanks apcs ninjas etc etc. I've guiltlessly enjoyed in the merciless slay of the helpless in order to please the slay gods. I've too experienced ,more often than not, in full effect the horror of being slaughtered like fatted chickens to the sacrifice! Get to a cool tank battle map like dust storm or canyon all to have it washed away in minutes then on to 2 hours of district or escort. Its not that I despise those maps I've come to really enjoy them, that my emotions cycle : I'm done! I'm pissed i'm happy I'm pissed I'm excited then we just !@#! lost son of a!@#!@ ...FAILURE!!! ***DOOM!*** It is however a part of the game isn't it? Suck it up and move on. . The more I write I can't but think of C&C Tiberian Wars when I was succomb to fear and doubt that I could not win in the long run cause I suck at warfare with the resource hounding and protection. I'd rush a group of engis in a apc and capture what I could either quickly killing or at least crippiling/slowing their buildup. So nerfing the Apc would suck in this case. This is empires ONO and the apcs can carry 3 nades with no mg and enough armor to away the enemy buildings without grenadiers. 1 dubee or some opie on that apc and the whole place is gonna be up in smoke in no time but w/o the grins. :p So nerf the apc, raise the cost, yes both good but thats only gonna solve the apc rushing. The victory bound commandereres like master looking to bring victory to the themselves and the troops will always find a way of ending a map within the first few minutes. 99% It takes either the Commander to know and not be affraid to drag and click or if he wants an eventual coup and hanging in the public square can belittle berate and scream as to where to put his troops. At the least the Squad commanders knowing where to go(assuming that the squad peeps will fallow). A Problem is when 1 team gets 15 peopls that know what to do and the other gets 5 that know and the rest don't know don't show or just don't care about what goes on in Emp. This is a bigger problem than the apc or any other rush. It is sad how some peoples self esteem is so low they can't fathom a loss and stack. Especially sad border line pathetic when the clan peeps stack with other clan peeps. What is that about anyway? Fear of loosing to another clan? Discuss.
I agree with Krenzos changes although I don't feel they should be so extreme as to remove the APC rush. Rushing is a great feature of many games and makes the game much more varied. I do have one idea which has been touched on before. -After a certain range the accuracy of the missile decreases so it starts to veer off course making rocket sniping harder.
momos, that's so true. on crossroads earlier today, it was an 8 v 8, but it only ever felt like a 4 v 8 because most of the time their team must have been lolling about in their base. when we finally broke through their defence, they had NO turrets set up or anything... it was all too easy.
Yep bottom line is if you have two even teams of skilled players then chances are a good rush isn't going to do you a hell of a lot of good.. It's when you have a n00b com on one side and an xp com on the other that things go to shit.. someone made a good point, if all the engy's just laid down their turret b4 they left base we wouldn't have any problems.. IF ppl suicided as soon as the rush came we wouldn't have any problems If the com built a proper defense we wouldn't have any problems if the com build another APC for their team to spawn in when the rax went down we wouldn't have any problems.. bla bla bla bla bla Put 5 senior JPL guys against 5 senior CW guys with seasoned coms and you'll see a game that last for hours not minutes because a rush will not work Put n00b pubbers into the mix and then the whole mix goes to shit.. This isn't a way to judge if we need nerfs or changes. Like someone said in jest the only way to solve these problems is to nerf the good players or we will always have these inbalane issues
Lets imagine this: The map is emp_canyon, both teams spawn as engineers with repair upgrade and head out to refineries to get resources. A normal game, and both teams build a base and start fighting. Now lets imagine this: The map is emp_canyon, NF spawns as engineers with repair upgrade and head out to refineries to get resources. BE spawns as engineers, and they build a VF. They change to grenadier with ammo upgrade, get an APC with full armor, engine, and an MG. 8 grenadiers hop in and head for the enemy base. They stop outside of the enemy defences, and rocket snipe the NF barracks. At least 5 RPG's will hit everytime they fire, and after about 3-4 salvos, the NF barracks is down. NF players rush to the APC, but are killed by the MG or the barrage of pistol/mortar fire. With no place to spawn, the NF players are hopeless. The APC drives to the NF CV, and they 9th mine it to death. Game over in 5 minutes.
if the NF team had some noob players, or just a noob comm, this will happen and it will work. but a good comm will be able to stop these tactics, as the pleanty of warning given by players seeing the APC, and the APC having to encounter walls and barracks along their route, will give the seasoned commander pleanty of time to call back his team. basically, this is currently a tactic that good comms can use to easily and quickly roll over lesser teams. we gotta take in mind though- res during commander voting is being stopped - so teams won't start with the 600 needed for the APC rush rocket sniping is being curbed - so enemy grens will need to get closer to enemy defences before they attack APC's are getting nerf'd a bit - so they will fulfil their support role a lot better. I don't think in future RC's, this tactic will work.
I posted it right before Krenzo posted RC22, and i'm sure even the best team would fail to stop such a rush.
Bah! I doubt we'll ever see that! :confused: Headshotmaster:Actually, if JPL had dubee in the APC rush then CW doesn't have a chance in hell lol Ooooooo.... :D
