I think upgraded and advanced RPG should have less of an effect on damage and more on guiding distance, speed and turning speed.
(apology) Devs can we get an idea on what your thoughts are? Its pretty damn obvious that giving riflemen 84 dmg with a direct hit has ruined the grens. Buff their RPG all you want, but when we get rolled 24/7 by the 10 riflemen on the other team we will be detoured. Any clue as into what is being done? (drunk dont ban me(
The mortar doesn't need to be hugely damaging to be a good anti infantry weapon, it needs a good radius so you can affect lots of people and hit them easily. Even if it took four shots to kill someone it wouldn't matter if you could quite easily hit them and everyone near them, the idea is that you don't sit still when you're being mortared, it forces you to move, which means either riflemen gun you down, or you sit still and die of mortar rounds if you choose not to face the riflemen, or you can run back the way you came if you have enough cover. Neither class alone can kill enemies in all situations although the rifleman remains the best anti infantry class because it works in more situations, the grenadier completes the rifleman's deficiencies (trenches, tanks, and turrets) and adds in some utility roles with mines and general explosive damage. The mortar does feel a bit crap at the moment, not because the damage is bad, but because the damage is bad for the radius of effect. The mortar has a tiny radius and doesn't kill people even on a direct hit, now I think that damage reduction is a good thing but considering the only way you can use it effectively is to direct hit people with it, it doesn't make it a very effective weapon. Less damage, much better radius, which gives it a hard damage cap but means that when used against large groups of enemies, everyone takes damage which means it does a lot of damage but over a wide area.
yea, me too, but i would like to see increased effects with that so that you can see if you hit someone something like smoke for a few seconds, if the guys you shot at are in the smoke they got damage, if they aint then not if you cannot see your target you wont be able to see if he is in the smoke or not but then you'd probably keep shelling them chrisses idea has been suggested and shot down a number of times but i see it as one of the best ways to inplement the weapon, let it do some good damage, like 1/3 hp bar, but over a great great area, something to flush out squads and soften up charging infantry
That's sort of what I suggested, in my Direct-Impact & High-Explosive munitions. What do you think about that idea?
I'm liking Chris' idea. Increase radius, decrease dmg to infantry so that it's not a 2-shot. Perhaps full damage to buildings though to keep the mortar as a superb anti-emplacement weapon. Not sure where to place vehicles in all this since you're supposed to use the rpg to kill vehicles.
No, it means the gren will have no DIRECT 1 ON 1 anti infantry ability other than his pistol. A gren can do more damage to a group of enemies than a rifleman can, and he can do it from cover, and from a long distance, and he's still lethal when on an elevated position. It means grens won't be able to attack at the front very easily, but so what? Every other class can do that and the grenadier is a more powerful support class anyway, he can rack up the kills when the enemy starts drawing the battle lines and the rifleman's effectiveness diminishes, the grenadier will get more powerful in trench warfare because there is more cover for him, and enemies tend to group together behind walls. I'd say full damage to buildings, yes, and vehicles I'd say should take pretty poor damage from the mortar, at least compared to the RPG, the RPG needs fixing to become a good AT weapon and I don't think the mortar should be part of the gren's AT ability, any AT ability it does have is ability which is taken away from the RPG to stop the gren as a whole being overpowered. Separate the two roles.
i see a gren shelling invading infantry, and then using his pistol to finish off anyone that got trough his shelling
It was fine as it was, The rifleman's dig in is broken which needs to be fixed. More splash less damage has been suggested and shot down because it could be OP if used in more numbers like the RPG's would be if they were buffed. It was fine as it was and people wanted to play it because it was fun. So with more people as that class it was doing enough damage to get the job done with out being OP.
But that means you'd have to have 3-5 people play grens and shell the heck out of infantry. I'd say that's OK. If you've got 5 riflemen all dug in they should slaughter any incoming infantry they can see with the focus fire. That's the beauty of it. Plus, if the enemy team is stupid enough to cluster their infantry while under mortar fire, then they deserve to die to the mortars.
The problem is that good grens would hit with that setting every time. You couldnt dodge the shells, no matter what you do.
This And I want to be able to kill people that I am better than, I don't want them to slaughter me because they chose a rifleman and kill me in 3 shots. (The irony...takes us 3 shots to kill them)
I'd say use the weapon setup that was fun and actually had people wanting to play it. These suggestions are so that 1 or 2 grens on a team can be effective. And when you do that it can be OP when a lot of people use them. If you have it so you need more of them to have an impact it would be like engineers. A team with out them fails.
If you're using four or five grenadiers to instantly kill attacking infantry then you're using four or five players. That's like saying there game is unfair because four or five riflemen can kill squads instantly. If the enemy has four or five grens on an elevated position and they shell everything attacking them, the solution is to either use a few tanks because the RPG should never be effective enough to completely stop a tank rush, or use an apc to get riflemen close, or use charge to close the distance quickly, or use your own grens to mortar them back, or use arty, which is the usual method of breaking walled in forts defended by lots of infantry. However as the shells don't do massive amounts of damage, that isn't a problem. Assume you're not getting hit dead on each time because you're not standing out in the open directly in the line of fire, it might take six shots to kills you, or four if you get pretty direct hits but five-six is more probable. In the time it takes the gren to fire five or six shots you should have moved somewhere he can't accurately target you, i.e behind a different part of the wall, or you should have killed him, or you should have moved out of range. It's like if you run towards any of the other classes when they know you're there you're going to get shot, the same is true of the gren, however unlike the other classes if the gren shoots you he can't instantly kill you, however on the other hand he can shoot you in more places. The only time one mortar should be deadly is if there's like five people clustered round an ammo box behind two bits of wall, which people do often do, in that instance one gren will hit five people per shot, doing more damage than an engineer can repair because it's on five people, then the next shell will hit, and they'll come closer to death, the idea is that this stops people clustering together. Against a long wall with several infantry behind it, the gren might only be able to hit one or two at once, and if he shoots in the same place, players can move away, if he shoots in different places, he isn't going to hit the same people all the time, so they'll last longer if they have an engineer. If lots of grens are mortaring the wall then you're in a bit of trouble, but I don't see a problem with that because those grens will be easy pickings if someone gets past with an APC full of infantry or a rifleman or two, or even a scout sneaking past. If the enemy has several grens effectively mortaring incoming enemies and riflemen watching the grens, and engineers healing everyone, dropping walls, and giving ammo, that's all three working classes working together in considerable numbers, so yeah it's going to be damn hard to beat, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be, but you could beat it with a decent tank rush especially if it's supported by infantry in APCs. Or even a sizeable mixed infantry attack, if you get your grens to mortar back while your rifleman fight through to their grens that will give you a chance if you're particularly good infantry combatants. The only way it can be 'overpowered' is if lots of varied team members all work together, and I thought the whole point of empires is that lots of mixed teamwork is supposed to be powerful.
