A average tank driver will kill those 3 grens with a light tank or an HE MED easily, good tank driver use defusal. No player that playes the grenadier class will agree on that, the mortar is way better against turrets. A nice UML & HE med can rush the enemy comm on more open maps and kill it. Tanks dont need infantry support.
sirex, requiring three grenadiers to take on tanks is NOT a reliable anti tank class. how are people going to get squads to work if they need three grenadiers to take out tanks?
No. Yes it is better, but gameplay wise not really a big difference. No I was talking about late game 1000 rez tanks not early game.
seems like we're back to the "chasing eachothers tails" type of discussion. everyone has their own view of how the game should be played and is fruitlessly trying to explain this to other people with their own similarly fixed ideas. i'm not saying i'm perfect either, but i know that at least i'm listening and my views are flexible. origionally i thought that the grenade launcher mortar should be replaced by the mortar mortar, but now i think that a substitute would be better because the GL mortar has many plus points. so, instead of just a "my subjective view is the right one" contest, lets go back to basics. what can we agree on? there's some things on this post that we could start with. can we agree on a problem/mechanic/gameplay area that could be improved in this section? (the answer to this is a trick one, no gameplay is perfect --> we can always improve it)
Whats the reason to discuss with someone that actually doesnt really play the grenadier class or else he wouldnt make some of his statements and other ones show that he doesnt really understand the game... common someone who says that no good tank driver uses defusal, that a he/uml cant rape the cv in some seconds or that its not a big difference gameplaywise to use mortar or rpg against turrets... Someone who actually plays the grenadier class would not have any problem to hurt a turret with the first mortar shell... Its always the same, people that dont play grenadier start to bitch about it and dont even try to play the class on their own.
Why would it be fun to play as a grenadier then? Tank vs Grenadier is fine already or at least grenadier isn't overpowered in this case.
late game, infantry become fairly obsolete compared to tanks, there's a general breakdown of inter-team tactics in favour of just "get as many tanks together as you can", because infantry and squads get devoured by tanks. the grenadier can go toe to toe with early tanks, but not reliably, and not after that, which makes keeping a squad working rather difficult. the grenadier is balanced, but only because he's decent anti-inf, but squads already have rifleman and such for that. what i would have is a weapon which is overpowered against tanks, capable of going mono-e-mono with med tanks the way that the current gren has a decent chance against light tanks. but he'll be a lot weaker against infantry, and as infantry are more common than tanks, he'll be dead very quickly if not aided by anti infantry units. "won't this make early game tanks useless, if the gren has a weapon powerful enough to take out med tanks". the earlier in the game, the more infantry there are. it would take a very well organised squad to keep such a grenadier alive against all the enemy infantry in the earlier sections of the game. I think if the classes can compliment each other a bit better like that, instead of stepping on each others toes in terms of roles. i've said some of the reasons for my belief in an alternative option of weapon for the guy earlier in the thread, I'll just sound like a broken record saying them again. I'm not saying that gameplay is broken now, but that it could be better. for example, infantry seem to become fairly obsolete when HE tanks appear, and a whole element of the mod, infantry, dies off.
HE is the only problem. Chainguns and MG's are deadly but we can hide and dodge, HE however means death no matter what the situation
Yep, communism's right, the only way to take out a tank then is to use mines, or snipe them from high ground that has no walls to splash HE off of, which is RARELY FOUND.
turrets are made obsolete with upgraded nades, HE (especially now, now that arty doesn't suck so bad), and to a lesser extent now, nukes and researching upgraded RPG is a waste of fucking time
turrets are even more obsolete than infantry when HE comes out. one HE shell can take 1/3 the health from 2 - 3 turrets per shot, and there's no hope for trying to "tank" (tf2 lingo) the turret by sitting behind it repairing, because you'll just get blown away. I don't mind that especially, it somewhat breaks through any turret spam in the first section of the game.
Wronggggg. A plus 15 damage to rockets is a huge deal. Add an extra 25 damage for the upgraded upgraded RPGs, RPGs are amazing.
If you have a team that is willing to play gren (like 2/3 of your team) and you rush advanced rpg you can win the game EDIT: Dunno if it still works cause rpg doesnt damage buildings.
first off... anybody who uses the phrase "you are wrong" in the beginning of their post... wow.... GTFO.. srsly. second... are yous aying a rifleman or engi with ammo upgrade cant kill a rax just as well if not better than a grenadier? i kill PLENTY of structures with explosive grenades and engiboms.... IMO - riflemen and engis are BETTER at killing turrets than grens... explosive grenade > mortar because 1 - you can throw an explosive gren in a cluster of turrets and take out 3 or four with 3-4 well placed nades - second - you can throw nades much faster than you can fire mortars... its all about nade spam - and if you dont know how or where to throw nades i blatantly suggest you go back to playing gary's mod. ive read more than 10 pages of butthurt whining and decided to stop here because i have come to the conclusion that you and sirex either: you suck at this game, dont play this game often enough, OR actually like arguing pointless discussions... in fact... i feel like an idiot for wasting 20 minues of my life reading this thread... grens stay as they lay imo... if your too shitty to kill a gren than perhaps your playing the wrong mod...
