Picking off enemies in the enemy base while someone is sneaking in may work. Ding! Argument for the scout rifle. All you need is teamwork. (Which will never occur in Empires)
I use it in a teamworking manner. I try and pick off revive engies and loners who try to take out our refs. I stick with other engies to give them a range advantage they lack and sabbing is highly useful for building destruction.
The people who generally are opposed to the scout rifle center their argument around vague abstractions such as "empires maps are too open for long range weapons" and "scouts can't be countered by other classes." The argument that empires is not suitable for "long range weapons" is completely worthless if the opponent of the scout rifle does not define what a "long range weapon" is, and none of them seem to have ever been able to. We have several long range weapons that are far more lethal than the scout rifle at basically any range (see: nfhr, carbine, both ars with accuracy, several vehicle MGs), why are they acceptable and the scout rifle is not? Is the only reason why the scout rifle unacceptable is because it has a scope? After all, the only thing the scout rifle has that is better than any of the rifleman weapons is the scope, so if I put a scope on pistol 1 would it be imba and unsuitable for empires? The argument that "scouts can't be countered by other classes" is absolutely ridiculous. Riflemen can't be consistently countered by other classes until the inclusion of tanks right now, how does it make any sense at all that we whine about the scout rifle? Are you pissed that the scout can be invisible while he camps on a hill and gets one kill every two minutes? That sounds like a problem with hide, not with the scout rifle. As several other members of the community and I have already done, these points have been addressed in several counterargument posts, but the conversation never evolves past this point because the people who are opposed to the scout rifle have been consistently demonstrated to be whiners who are incapable of forming rational arguments. The differences between the classes (especially with the scout who is having an identity crisis) should be emphasized, not diminished. The scout rifle should be made into a more distinctive weapon for the scout, not removed. Making it into a faster-handling semi-automatic rifle with a scope could be a good compromise and it would be interesting to see how it works.
pickled_heretic: Theoretically the scout rifle can be used to support your rushing teammates. But as everybody should know it mostly forces new players to camp and snipe at mostly useless location. This can't be solved by scripting. It's a mental thing that players tend to camp when the rifle has a scope. And this is even forced by Empires because of the hide skill. And in general I see the scout as a fast special unit with strength in close corner combats (like in TF2). Therefore I suggested this many times: - Give scout pistol2/shotty and remove it from rifleman - Remove scoped rifle (or if we don't want to remove a weapon model give it to the rifleman) - Give scout initial speed upgrade And because people hate to search scouts which are hidden somewhere in base: - Hidden scouts should be always visible (even when they touch 3+ sides) - Enhanced senses should draw orange diamonds (maybe expand enhanced senses also to squad or whole team)
On the contrary, I didn't say anything about teamwork. I could give a shit about teamwork. It's not my job to tell people how to play the game. A deathmatching rifleman or grenadier who cares not one iota about helping his teammates is still helping, why should anyone tell him otherwise? Why should riflemen and grenadiers be the only two classes that can do this? Isn't a lone camping scout who is holding down a squad of engineers or picking off vulnerable stragglers behind the lines who are trying to repair sabbed refs helping his team as well? Who are you to judge them? The fact that you mentioned teamwork while addressing me is proof to me that you never even read my post, which is expected behavior from someone who wants to remove content from the game because it doesn't suit their own personal preferences.
As I already wrote it's a mental thing. I can't remember a camping rifleman or grenadier and both could also take out a squad of engineers or some lonely repair engis. But the experience shows that these classes are mostly rushing with their team. And it's the job of the game to tell people how to play the game. In Empires you are mostly successful when you rush the enemy bases. Any comment for the scout as a fast close combat unit?
It's nobody's job to tell people how to play the game. There are many ways to contribute to victory. In order to win, someone needs to deal the death blow, but there are many ways to contribute to that effort. If you're camping an enemy's rax and you have no intention of killing it but you hold down 5+ people for several minutes and an undefended rax of theirs goes down somewhere else to a lone engineer in the mean time, you contributed just as much to the death of that rax as the engineer who killed it. A limited view of the dynamic nature of empires gameplay is harmful, especially when you're trying to balance gameplay and make it fun. That is one way a person can play a scout. The inclusion of a scout rifle does not hurt one's ability to select a different weapon and play differently. The fact that people have the choice is a good thing.
Ok. Giving people a choice might work. Then do this: But because the endless discussion must go on I guess that nothing will happen
"special weapons handling" skill as a prerequisite to using the scout rifle and hmg. discourages use of those weapons in early game with skills like acc. upgrade and hide for roflman and scout respectively.
Hey, at least they aren't as retarded as moving pistol2/shotty to scout and expecting that to fix something.
First of all I can counter a rifleman as an engineer(woah mg turret) and gren(watch me play sometime) all the time. Rifleman are hard to counter because they are thee anti inf class. The point is the range on the scout rifle is much farther than it is on any of the rifles. So far its to the point where you can't see the scout and he even has a skill where he can turn invisible.. You also forgot to mention there is no hit direction indicators in this game unlike every other FPS. edit: I just see this forcing people to have to use tanks making all the camping scouts wait around for hella long so they can pick off people trying to build refs which wont be built then you got people lined up waiting in the VF for res to get tanks so they don't get sniped.. It's just not the right game for a long range 1 hit kill rifle.
I played the game when the scout was a 1 hit kill weapon.. I understand what it does to game play. 2.0 testers understand this as well edit: It's funny that you want to define the scout class yet leave it for them to choose to be a sniper or a close range sabbing class. If anything I would give the scout rifle to the rifleman class and give the scout the AR's. I would definitely not make it a 1-hit kill weapon. The way to counter riflemen or tanks with .50 cals is to take cover as soon as you start to take damage.. Then you can get healed and return fire. 1 hit kill weapons need to be easy to dodge or trace back to the gunman like the mowtar.. The mowtar is arc'd has a lot less range and is a big slow moving shell with a long trail of smoke. Much different than a bullet with range farther than your vis distance.
