Points for Grens destroying armor plates

It's not my fault your shitty system rewards you for doing stupid shit.

 

Death is the ultimate punishment (other than banning, which isn't a part of gameplay) in most games. Getting rewarded a few arbitrary points but losing the fight/battle seems like the issue lies with the fucking players being retarded.

 

Death is not much of a punishment in empires. respawn in 10 seconds, right? sometimes that's faster than running to another fight or even filling up on ammo. Hell, it must not be much of a punishment if people actually suicide for utilitarian purposes.

regardless, your system is rewarding someone for attempting to do something that in traditional gameplay is absolutely absurd. why even create the opportunity for something like this? what are you gaining? more points for grens? if that's your goal, there are far simpler and more sensical ways to do it.

 

Give me a list.

No wait, you won't because then you'd be contributing.

 

Oh silly goose, I'm contributing by being the counterweight to some of the crappy ideas on the suggestions forum. God knows I can't destroy them all, though I try, though I try.

Here's a list, though, since you insist:

Buff grens.

there, end of list. Grens kill faster -> grens get more kills -> grens get more points. Also solves the problems of grens being shitty, something everyone overwhelmingly agrees upon. How do we buff grens you ask? nothing fancy. 10% mortar/rpg damage buff. yay, problem solved. not enough? buff it again next patch. too much? cut it by 5%.

Holy shit I should be a dev!

edit-> Oh but wait, this is off topic, so maybe I shouldn't contribute. listen, this thread isn't about ways to increase the point gaining abilities of the gren class, this is about Castrol GTX's suggestion that grens get points if they destroy armor plates.

 

Wow. That was insightful. You managed to give us the idea that everyone who's ever played grenadier had.

'You know what, the gren needs to do more damage'
'This RPG sucks'
'This mortar sucks'

You still haven't contributed anything, you've just summarised years of bitching into 2 words.

Next patch I bet grens get nerfed.

 

I thought I had indicated in my post that it was obvious that everyone already agreed that grens should be buffed. You seem to believe that the only way to 'contribute' is to come up with some original idea? ROFL. There hasn't been a whole lot of contribution here then, you included. This whole thread has been up until I began 'contributing:'

LOL CASTROL GTX GOOD IDEA!! MAYBE I ZUCK YA DICK???


my point was that grens not getting points is a symptom of them being shitty in general and making them less shitty will fix this symptom (and by definition any other symptom of them being shitty).

well, i also wanted to make a secondary point that buffing the gren is not complicated, as some people here in the suggestions forum seem to believe. but that's ancillary to my main concern, and that is that this thread is a waste of human life.

 

It's true that grens will be more useful in the next version, which is a good point to bring up. However, it might still be useful to give a point for getting the enemy vehicle down to the hull (as HSM suggested), which obviously wouldn't be cumulative on all sides, it's hull or no hull.

I guess then you'd have to think about half repaired and back to hull points, but that might be solved by making it not take effect again until the armour is back up to full.

 

We had already a similar suggestion about assist points:

 

Yeah but SIP this is regarding the event that no one gets the kill. Its about giving points to grens for routing enemy tanks because their armor is low.

Pickled, people just aren't that interested in gaining points; not so much so that they would give up trying to win the game for them. Besides, we're talking needing to strip off more than half of the armor on a light tank for 1 point, which is quite a lot like building turrets over and over again for points (slow, tedious, no one does it, plus you'll die trying or run out of ammo).

So, at the possible cost of a few deeply misguided pointwhorers, people might be more inclined to shoot even when they won't get a kill, drop mines more often, etc.

 

Pickled's argument is based on the (mis?)conception that players simply like to run around without contributing to the game, and just gaining points for e-peen, or other varius reasons.
While this does happen (there are plenty of revive-farms, turret trade-offs, etc), more often than not 80% of the team is playing and keeping in line with the game.

Also to note, this new method of, 'point-whoring,' would only apply to late/late-mid game. Light tanks have two plates, which isn't enough to qualify for a point, nor do AFV's (actually 3 plates of comp is 279 [93*3?] health, which would reward one point, in which case it might be deserved, and still assuming we're doing 1point/250damage), mediums with 3 plates of comp can still receive this, and heavies will, of course, give much more points.

As to simply jumping around a tank and shooting at its sides to gain points without killing it, the gren might get a point, but he will most likely be dead. Unless he's killing a BE Heavy with two rails, the heavy ought to be able to kill the gren within a sufficient enough time to disallow the gren any significant gain in points.

 

Shadow187:
Therefore I posted the assist suggestion (http://forums.empiresmod.com/showpost.php?p=256738&postcount=29).
There players only get points (normal and assist), when the target is destroyed. So a gren, who is doing much damage but not the final shot will at least gain one assist point.

 

http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=10792

Yeah, we had this before and the majority thinks it's a good idea. I support this.

 

Each cannon shell should do upwards of 20 damage. I don't care if it's Mashav or Pickled or (insert vet here), it's still a relatively simple task to kill them with cannons.

But even if it is one of the aforementioned names, doing 250 damage with rockets needs three rockets (less if the 2.25 update buffs rockets (or even less with rpg_upgrade(which no ones seems to research, mind you!))), and any non-heavy tank not outfitted with composite will die before then. Therefore, only one point is gained due to this suggestion's effects, and the gain for killing the tank and the driver. Three points for killing a tank on foot; not too shabby.

Also, Castrol, would this suggestion include mines?

 

I think your missing the point. There is already a strong incentive for getting kills (less people shooting at you, closer to winning). If you removed the point system entirely, people would still does these things. The problem with the kill = point system is that it doesn't accurately reflect who did the most work to achieve that kill.

Here's an example, two BE tanks take on one NF tank. BE tank 1 does 80% damage and BE tank 2 does 20% damage but gets the kill. BE tank 2 gets the point although BE tank 1 contributed most to the death of the NF tank. I've seen something like this happen all the time in Empires.

Also, people don't play Empires to point whore. That's why you rarely see people exploiting some of the serious point-whoring bugs. Rather, people gain points to more easily achieve their ultimate objective of killing the enemy CV.

tl;dr version:
Kills don't pay the bills in Empires; teamwork does. The point system should reflect that reality by being based on damage rather than kills.

 

.... I somwhat like it.... also I would really love to have a counter for vehicle kills. Doesnt seem entirely right when you get like 25 points from that and people wasting a turret farm with nades are far far above you on the score list. You dont feel very appreciated as gren even if you held back the enemy advance for a long time.

 

Suggestion for assist points, which tries to solve your problem:
http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?p=247175#post247175

 

Ok now seriously Sip, stop posting your thread man...that's the 3rd time.