What is wrong with Empires?

Discussion in 'General' started by Kidpaler, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    you dont need accuracy upgrade, just go prone (but dont sleep in afterwards, stand up again and push forward). finally smg2 is love again.

    you could still manipulate the multipliers. have many maps been "config-edited" resource wise? because i barely ever saw an admin change it
    (except for when we had "tankwar" scripts but thats years back)
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  2. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm almost positive that maps are largely untouched resource-wise other than the universal server side adjustment to all maps.

    Then again, some maps, like streetsoffire, do.
     
  3. мrвlυeѕĸy

    мrвlυeѕĸy Member

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    The real problems:
    • New players are unlikely to encounter a proper game unless they stumble upon Empires at exactly the right time of the week.
    • Most of the oldskool players no longer care about the outcome of games. - and just go off doing their own thing (myself included)
    • Removal of fun elements of the game (server jeep turbo etc and CV flipping) mean that the game is now less effective at stress relief so people are less likely to play.
    • The game became too sexualised when they added camo skins.
     
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  4. JustGoFly

    JustGoFly Member

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    The game is designed to be played a very specific way. But noobs have no clue what that way is. They join and just want to shoot people. So since we're so toxic we ask them to spawn as engineer, but when they all come out as scout - I simply quit. Fuck this game if they can't fix simple stuff like that. I am not baby sitting a bunch of 8 year olds. Telling them how magnificent they are, who game after game causes you to lose. ya right. Attempt to teach them result in vets telling you to STFU.

    Those that complain of the toxic community join and don't play - but cast blame when you attempt to win and get frustrated doing so. They sit back waiting for your attempts to fail, then chastise you when you say anything negative. Leave this game to the 8 year olds who want to build walls. You're welcome to fix the problem in the forums - lol. What is actively being done to address this? From my perspective - it's to blame a toxic community instead of fixing the problem. So then you lose your Vets and this becomes a vicious cycle.

    What could you do? Two servers - VETS and NUBS. Don't allow new players on VETS until they graduate grade school, or have some advocate, or simply show competence, but anyone can join NUBS. There are many other solutions to this issue. Some of which I believe Thexa is working on.

    What makes this an awesome game is that at least 90% of the team listen and play as a team. Small PUGS are the worst since buildings do not build themselves. SO FIX IT. If under 10 people are on a server, make the buildings self constructing at 50% rate of an engineer. This makes the com happy and not as reliant upon the Scout who is sniping the enemy base. Make it clear that this happens on small pops. HEY - wouldn't that make it simpler for new players. Only one would need to drop buildings - the others can build walls or hide as scout. There are so many things that could be done to address the issues which are driving your vets away.

    1) Level up Engineers faster than Scout. Hell scouts should get half credit for kills.
    2) Hell show a sign - Congratulations - You get ONE SKILL LEVEL for spawning as an Engineer. Lead them into correct decisions. On an infantry map - encourage them to be rifleman or to learn to be an engineer squad leader.
    3) If you had a ranking system (which I know is under construction) - level up nubs faster, or start them with two skills. IF they spawn as engineer on a commander map - give them some positive re-enforcement.

    Focus on what makes this game fun has been removed. Who likes the slow vehicles? Insta-kill from Riflemen? Grenadiers with upgrades are now stronger than tanks. Constant randomization of research, for no good reason. Swapping MG Turret and ML turret in the research tree for no reason at all. Hell until I saw that I had a field of MG turrets - I was like OK Slow down, don't trust anything, read every label, they like to screw with vets. Turrets on buildings was genius and super fun! But also a mistake, and no matter how much we said how much we liked it, it was removed.
     
  5. urethra franklin

    urethra franklin Member

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    Yesterday I watched a new player get voted in as comm, and earnestly try to learn how to command, and he was doing fine apart from not knowing specifics of the map (it was mvalley and he didn't know the vf rush), and another player went spec and bitched that the team didn't vote him in and said that a new player should NEVER get voted in if there's someone else on.

    That's what's wrong with empires.
     
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  6. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    mvalley starting resources or the community at large?
     
  7. urethra franklin

    urethra franklin Member

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    It should have been fairly obvious I was talking about a "vet" refusing to play and bitching in spec that the commander was new, even though he was making a good attempt to learn
     
  8. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    based franklin, you tell those """"""""""""""""vets"""""""""""""""""" what's up.
     
  9. urethra franklin

    urethra franklin Member

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    you guys call yourself vets but I haven't seen a single one of you frauds giving a dog a prostate exam
     
  10. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    Stay on topic please. NO arguing, do not argue on how to fix it, I just want to know the problems. Arguing for solutions will come later. We first need to hold a vote based on these problems and rank them from the worst to not that bad but we do need more. Post ANY problem you can think of.
     
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  11. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    money
    district
    escort
     
  12. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    What about them? Go into some detail for the vote.
     
  13. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    money is stupid and lasts forever
    district is stupid and would last forever wasnt this arbitrary limit in place which feels shit and is stupid
    escort is stupid and lasts forever

    null strategy invovled in those maps.

    oh and ofc there is urbanchaos, its a tad less stupid, but still stupid. only good thing about it, its not played as often as the three i mentioned above.

    did i forget one of the officials?

    but i know well never get rid of those maps or at least reduce their appearance to bearable. also i wonder i had to explain this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  14. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    Because I want people to know specifically why they are voting for something when I make a vote for all of this rather than just 'lel that map"
     
  15. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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  16. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    besides the toxicity, the contributors do not listen to the majority of people about their work ie the new sounds, and chalk it up to people who complain just don't like change and make some other weak excuse why their changes are not accepted by the rest.

    People who create or change something are not the best judge of their work because they are innately bias about what they have done and need to listen to unbiased opinions and respect them.

    it seems there is just no quality control anymore of what gets shoved into this mod
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
  17. Beerdude26

    Beerdude26 OnThink(){ IsDownYet(); }

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    As Vicky mentioned, there appears to be no unified vision. One of the devs mentioned to me that something like a design doc is actively being disregarded. What I mean by that, is that any contributor can work on whatever they like. The problem is that lack of a design doc doesn't mean there isn't one - it just means there are just as many design docs as there are contributors.

    We've already seen the problems this causes with the tank destroyer, where that contributor worked on it, got feedback from the community, was ready to put it ingame, when suddenly a discussion arose between him and some other developers over a minor gameplay element of the tank destroyer (I think it was whether the turret should be able to turn or not.). Because of that, that stalled.

    I don't know if it's going in or not, but what is clear, is that some basic communication and planning ahead - how should this work and what role should it play in the gameplay, stuff like that - would have prevented that entire ordeal.

    So my message is: get a design document. Set milestones.

    If you don't know where to start or how it should look like, here's the one I wrote with the team when I was working on Empires: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14qHtNDUPer6cdqVaN0KLdzydOOTryhbcHisVbOP1UGc/edit?usp=sharing
     

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