what about... like... super grenadiers... ?

Um, this was just off the top of my head, very poorly thought out, and generally only a rough idea of a rough sketch. So bear with me. Also the title is misleading.

Just brainstorming here, but IF the scouts were removed/massively altered.... and a new class was being thought up... i know Simon mentioned making it some sort of officer class instead. Just completely scrap the scout thing and make a new class.

Well I was thinking about current infantry anti-tank, and perusing some of the threads that mentioned how versatile the grenadier is, currently. And he is- the mines can kill anything, mortar is an excellent anti-everything weapon, and rockets are decent at tanks and sniping turrets.

So what about making a class that was SUPER exclusive to tanks? Idk, this may go against Krenzo's original "only 4 classes for flexibility" philosophy. But, instead of the current armament of pistol, rocket, mortar, mine, all of which are good against many things, something like... idk... a two types of rocket launchers, stickies, and a pistol... or something. Maybe some special ability against tanks, like how the rifleman has body armor. The idea being a class to counter heavies late in the game, without detracting too much from the current grenadier. The drawback would be that the stickies and the rockets would be far less effective against anything but tanks, instead of the mine's anti-building and the mortar's anti-everything.

Technically nine-mining is just about the best anti-tank available, but i know that's gonna be removed.

But then again, you could always just add the option to change the current gren's aresenal. I know that such an idea has been discussed many times before.... using valve's theories of efficient changes to the game, that would probably be better then this whole new class thingy.

Honestly, I'm only so-so about this idea, but I figured what the hey, throw it out there.

 

Grens are getting a big damage buff anyway, and getting absolutely owned by any infantry doesnt appeal to me at all.

 

ah. I didn't know about the damage buff. I guess I should read up on those newer threads.

 

Which damage buff? Ive only heard about better mines.

You mean a class that acts like a "light, light tank" ? More agility and less defense?
Hmm I think the main problem is the balance in the early and mid game.
Every class that can handle heavys must be overpowered there.

 

I don't see why you couldn't just give the grenadiers those weapon options anyway, it doesn't seem to need to be another class. The option of sacrificing versatility for specific power is something I think all classes could use a shot of.

 

I dunno, I think grenadiers are focused enough as-is. I mean, okay, they can sort of defend themselves with the pistol, and the mortar is decent if they've got the jump, but... For the most part, they're pretty worthless against infantry.

...Man, this thread title brought back my old dreams about power-suited infantry. Such a shame that the idea of super units has been shot down time and time again.

 

Well a grenadier at the moment can make an effective blockade against infantry, blow up structures with his weapons, and still fight tanks. If you allowed the grenadier to focus on either building or tank fighting at the expense of the other areas, like being able to fight tanks very effectively but totally unable to tackle any structure other than a turret or two without requiring an ammo source and lots of time, or taking out structures quite efficiently but being less capable against tanks. I think it would help, because at the moment I often know what sort of fighting I'm going to be doing and I'd like to specialise in it.

 

They specialize in the destruction of inanimate objects. Isn't that focused enough? It seems silly to have a class entirely focused on buildings and one entirely focused on tanks.

 

Which, if you were reading, is why I suggested that you make these specialisations options for the grenadier... Not separate classes.

 

Whoops, my bad.

Still, it seems like an unnecessary weakening of the class. You'd do more damage against either, presumably, but how many people would really plan on one or the other? If you're storming an enemy base, you WILL be up against both.

 

The people who aren't storming an enemy base, the people who may, perhaps, be defending a point against enemy vehicles, or who are fighting in a battle taking place in an area designed to give both infantry and vehicles a role, which there could do with being a few more of in some maps.

 

You gotta think about how rocket sniping will impact as well, the current weapons are used a lot and if you make them do a shitload of damage it's only gunna get worse.

 

i am operating under the assumption that rocket sniping will be somehow eliminated by the time something like this would be feasible. I mean, come on, just put a damn range limit on the things, jeez....

off topic. ANYWAY, I like the idea of just adding these to the grenadier's regular aresenal, choosing, like, more powerful rockets or some shit instead of a mortar, or stickies instead of mines. idk.

That still leaves the problem of revamping the scout, though...

 

If your powerfull equipment only damages tanks as you said, rocket
sniping is not such a problem.

I have two suggestions for those powerfull anti tank weapons

Corrosive gas mortar shells with good splash radius.
Make it look like a normal explosion (in brown) and not like smoke.
The gas volatilizes to fast to build smoke clouds.
The gas eats through tank armor like nothing but does
only minor (like 5 damage) to infantry.

Armor plate ripping rockets.
Rockets that are developed to penetrate like 2 layers of tank armor
to get behind them and then blast them of the tank with a second
small explosion. Because buildings dont have armor in such a way
the rocket is nearly useless to destroy them.
Oh and because the rocket rips always 2 layers of armor away its
not overpowered in the early game and doesnt become obsolete in
endgame.


Thats my humble conception of some real powerfull anti tank only weapons

 

I'd like to see some of these miraculous new weapons that can annihilate a tank but not even scratch a building!

 

Give Grenadiers Strider Penis Cannons.

On a serious note, I would love to see Grenadiers given the option to carry a grenade launcher instead of a Rocket Launcher/Mortar.

It does kinda mess up the role of the Grenadier though... :/

 

hmm... How about a heavy infantry for both sides?

H.Inf: -Ranking-
Speed - E
Power - A
Accuracy - C
Range - C
Defense - B

Weapons:
Primary: High powered Rocket Launcher with Vehicle lock-on OR Portable Chaingun (Minigun)

Secondary: Shotguns

Throwing: C4 charges

Special: Heavy Armor

A Special Infantry for both sides that is extremely powerful yet awfully slow. Works like a Demoman and a Heavyweapons Combined.

Only accessible for players who earned 10 points or more, and limited number of classes per team.

You can have 1 Heavy Inf for every other 3-4 players on your team.

Heavy Infantries are really slow though, which makes them the perfect targets for snipers or scouts.

Maybe change the grenadier's rocket launcher to a grenade launcher if this class is considered.

 

No.
No HWGuys, no Demoguys, no new classes, no LIMITS EVER, if you've ever played a game with limited classes, you'll know the frustration of an absolute fucktard driving the limited class, such as an MGer in DoD, not MGing doesn't usually help the team, but I'm a good MGer, most other players who do it stay still and camp, i move with the team and give them cover, which means I can't help my team to the best of my capabilities when a noob is running around with an MG.

Also, that's WAY overpowered, like seriously, C4, Shotties, Heavy Armor, a CHAINGUN? put this bastard in a jeep and you have a killing machine, you've never done any balancing ever have you?

 

what empty said. There is nothing worse then the short-term, short-sighted, artificial, and frustrating fix of limiting classes. That would especially be the case in empires.

for starters, what if the servers just change the class restrictions?

what if the player doesn't do his job? We've already seen what can happen if the commander doesn't do his job, and it's terrible.

it goes against Krenzo's original design idea, more proof that it doesn't belong in empires. Krenzo specifically stated that there were ONLY four classes so that no matter where you are on the map, there's a chance that someone on your team is nearby who does what you want. If you limit this number or put any sort of limit on it, you're pretty much setting yourself up for failure.


FURTHERMORE, these numbers just don't work in general, except for scouts, which suck and should never be played anyway atm. Sometimes you might need an entire team of engies (near beginning of game). Some time you might need an entire team of grenadiers (APC rush on com). Sometimes you may need a shit-ton of riflemen (idk, flag cap maps or something.) Class limitation simply does NOT work in the fluid, dynamic environment of empires, where conditions for classes can change in the blink of an eye.

 

In reference to the idea of more powerful weapons for the grenadier, why not tie them to research?

for example, (Theoretical!- not top be taken as fact) if you research rails you instantly gain a bonus weapon (for free) for the grenidier which is like a sized down version of a railgun (coilgun maybe?) which replaces both mortar and rocket launcher with a single shot mini-rail that can only be fired crouched/ prone that does a large damage to vehicles and buildings. This would be good for endgame, but to balance it against infantry it would have a charge (2 or 3 shots to a charge with 1 to 2? mins to fully charged) instead of a ammo count (light projectiles, idk?). combined with a slow rate of fire would make it a waste against infantry, but good as a anti tank weapon.

/Theoretical

if we gave a similar bonus to certain other researches it would be a suitable endgame upgrade to grens (or other classes) that would serve to keep infantry as a force up till the end.